R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-13-2008, 02:39 PM   #256
Ike
Tech Master
 
Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,131
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I think some of you guys are getting way ahead of yourselves. Lets focus on one MAYBE two motor combinations and the 200mm pan cars. Nothing will kill a new class quicker than dividing it up before it has had a chance to get started. By all means, if enough people show up to a race with 235mm cars let them run, but overall lets let that class RIP except in areas where people have been running them all along.

Also, let T/A use the vintage bodies, 1/12th use the GTP bodies, and lets stick with fun sportscar and GT car bodies for the 200mm pan cars. Again, if someone wants to run vintage bodies along side the GT bodies that shouldn't be an issue, especially on the local level.
Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 05:18 PM   #257
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,838
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Yes, I ran with the more effective wing that comes with the Viper. The body comes with an authentic wing found on the 1:1 Viper ACR coupe, but that wing just looks good, it doesn't make any downforce or add stability. The other wing that comes with the body looks much like a traditional sedan wing, except it's quite short (top to bottom) and the rake is also quite low. It doesn't make enough downforce for really highspeed sweepers, nor does it make enough stability to plant my car at turn-in at the end of a long straightaway.

Once I get the correct tires for my track surface these findings will likely change, but I'll be sure to report back as things change. FYI, I run at Jackson R/C in NJ on a 140ft by 70ft super fine grade asphalt track. It's a permanent facility, with no VHT (not needed) and the track is blown off every race day.
I would try a lighter center spring. The GT bodies are not ideal bodies for performance which is one of the reasons we chose them. Some are better than others but in a nut shell, the bodies dont play a big roll in the handling because they all pretty much suck equally. The reasoning behind using these bodies is to keep people running the body they think looks cool as opposed to the body of the week(TC and 1/12th is like this now). We have been running 2x pink front and rear tires for medium to high bite asphalt and on lower bite i like pinks front and rear. For a smoothe track i cut the tires down to 2.1 front and rear and for bumpy tracks i cut them to 2.281 front and rear.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 05:37 PM   #258
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Yes, I ran with the more effective wing that comes with the Viper. The body comes with an authentic wing found on the 1:1 Viper ACR coupe, but that wing just looks good, it doesn't make any downforce or add stability. The other wing that comes with the body looks much like a traditional sedan wing, except it's quite short (top to bottom) and the rake is also quite low. It doesn't make enough downforce for really highspeed sweepers, nor does it make enough stability to plant my car at turn-in at the end of a long straightaway.

Once I get the correct tires for my track surface these findings will likely change, but I'll be sure to report back as things change. FYI, I run at Jackson R/C in NJ on a 140ft by 70ft super fine grade asphalt track. It's a permanent facility, with no VHT (not needed) and the track is blown off every race day.
Sounds promising.

I was referencing if you ran the included wing, or something else (similar to what's run on Touring Cars, or thus a bolt-on).
RocketRob40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 05:39 PM   #259
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
I would try a lighter center spring. The GT bodies are not ideal bodies for performance which is one of the reasons we chose them. Some are better than others but in a nut shell, the bodies dont play a big roll in the handling because they all pretty much suck equally. The reasoning behind using these bodies is to keep people running the body they think looks cool as opposed to the body of the week(TC and 1/12th is like this now). We have been running 2x pink front and rear tires for medium to high bite asphalt and on lower bite i like pinks front and rear. For a smoothe track i cut the tires down to 2.1 front and rear and for bumpy tracks i cut them to 2.281 front and rear.
good stuff, keep it coming............
RocketRob40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 05:43 PM   #260
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike View Post
I think some of you guys are getting way ahead of yourselves. Lets focus on one MAYBE two motor combinations and the 200mm pan cars. Nothing will kill a new class quicker than dividing it up before it has had a chance to get started. By all means, if enough people show up to a race with 235mm cars let them run, but overall lets let that class RIP except in areas where people have been running them all along.

Also, let T/A use the vintage bodies, 1/12th use the GTP bodies, and lets stick with fun sportscar and GT car bodies for the 200mm pan cars. Again, if someone wants to run vintage bodies along side the GT bodies that shouldn't be an issue, especially on the local level.
I hear what you're saying, yet at the same time I wonder if there is enough of a difference between some of those supercar body designs (and GTPs) you guys have been talking about that would seperate them enough from true aero-cars and real GT-style sedans or vintage bodies.

No trying to start a pizzing match, or bashing you, just curious..........
RocketRob40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 08:20 PM   #261
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike View Post
I think some of you guys are getting way ahead of yourselves. Lets focus on one MAYBE two motor combinations and the 200mm pan cars. Nothing will kill a new class quicker than dividing it up before it has had a chance to get started. By all means, if enough people show up to a race with 235mm cars let them run, but overall lets let that class RIP except in areas where people have been running them all along. Also, let T/A use the vintage bodies, 1/12th use the GTP bodies, and lets stick with fun sportscar and GT car bodies for the 200mm pan cars. Again, if someone wants to run vintage bodies along side the GT bodies that shouldn't be an issue, especially on the local level.
Ike, it sounds like you missed the point. We weren't talking about dividing up GT10, we were just discussing what an all-pancar event could be comprised of, including this GT10 class unchaged with 200mm coupes. We all agree that developing GT10 is the purpose of this thread, all in agreement on that.
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 09:01 PM   #262
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

Indeed. I can see the trepidation in including 12th scale. I think it will depend on the kind of turnout that can be wrought in the first few months of outdoor seaosn as the 200mm chassis start getting into people's hands and people bring their older 200mm chassis out (well the people that have them).
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 09:35 PM   #263
Ike
Tech Master
 
Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,131
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Ike, it sounds like you missed the point. We weren't talking about dividing up GT10, we were just discussing what an all-pancar event could be comprised of, including this GT10 class unchaged with 200mm coupes. We all agree that developing GT10 is the purpose of this thread, all in agreement on that.
I've been thinking about an all pan car event for some months now. Heck, it's not all that tough to dream up for me since it's what all on road events were my first time around in RC. But, I haven't said anything here or at Trackside to Scotty since I think we need to see how the class does first. I guess I'm a little opposed to the GTP and Vintage bodies because I'm already bored with the standard Cuda, Camaro, and Mustang bodies in T/A, and there would only be a couple GTP choices. I'd like to see us do everything we can to make this a fun class with a wide variety of realistic body choices. In short I think 200mm pan cars with 2 door car bodies that run in various GT series around the world and 1/12th scale as we know it would be a great event. I'd certainly try to travel to such an event. Having a different body for each motor along with 235mm, 200mm, and 1/12th scale cars just complicates things. I think the whole point of the 200mm pan cars is to simplify things. Not trying to be combative, just tossing in my 2 cents.
Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 06:48 AM   #264
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

It looks like we're more or less on the same page, save for the Vintage bodies. I figure it this way, 235mm didn't stop racing, they just had a dramatic decrease in numbers. With the few 235mm capable chassis coming out soon, that class wouldn't be hard to field at a big event. 200mm will be an obvious choice for the majority IMO because it uses recognizable bodies and the electronics are straight out of 1/12 cars (park the 1/12 for summer, load the elctronics into the 200mm). Vintage isn't as easy for me to justify, but the three speed brackets, mod/superstock/stock, make the GTP/GT10/Vintage structure easy to justify. See the cleanliness of it?

Jason, thanks for the setup tips. I tried a softer center spring, but didn't have time to reduce the shock dampening, so the effects were blurred. There's always next week though.....
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 06:52 AM   #265
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,674
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

I ran my I-Fource yestereday with a Corvette C6 and the downfource from this body vs nitro GTP was quite a change. Car looked good, but lacked down force. That being said the Trans-Am class had a great time, so running more realistic bodies should be good.

We've been invited to set up a 50x60 track at a car show this weekend and thought we'd run the Trans-Am, but I'm going to have the I-Fource there as well and maybe even a second car for a demonstration of them as well.

The one thing that I did find out is that the body really does not have the width for rear tires set at 200mm front and rear. Anyone else find this? I have two other bodies coming so we'll see how these fit and run as well.

Lastly, just as was noted in a post above, I'd let the use of some other wing to be used and maybe a splitter on the front nose to make some downfource, but not change the body lines.
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 07:10 AM   #266
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grenade10 View Post
I ran my I-Fource yestereday with a Corvette C6 and the downfource from this body vs nitro GTP was quite a change. Car looked good, but lacked down force. That being said the Trans-Am class had a great time, so running more realistic bodies should be good.

We've been invited to set up a 50x60 track at a car show this weekend and thought we'd run the Trans-Am, but I'm going to have the I-Fource there as well and maybe even a second car for a demonstration of them as well.

The one thing that I did find out is that the body really does not have the width for rear tires set at 200mm front and rear. Anyone else find this? I have two other bodies coming so we'll see how these fit and run as well.

Lastly, just as was noted in a post above, I'd let the use of some other wing to be used and maybe a splitter on the front nose to make some downfource, but not change the body lines.
FYI, pan cars won't handle right if you have the front and rear width the same. The front of the car should be ~10mm narrower than the rear for weight to transfer properly. 1/12th cars and 235mm Pro-10 care are like this too. Narrow it up and you will get more steering and less front tire wear.

You have mount bodies carefully and make sure the rear axle is spaced right to get the tires to fit under the body. Most 200mm bodies are actually 204-208mm wide at the rear so any type of 200mm chassis will fit the wheels under with no rubbing. If you measure the width of the rear axle and it truly is 198-202mm it will fit under just about any 200mm body. Depending on tires the DB10R proto is 200mm(Jaco) to 202mm(BSR) wide with the axles shimmed and centered properly. We made the DB10R production car 2mm narrower so BSR's will fit.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 07:40 AM   #267
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grenade10 View Post
The one thing that I did find out is that the body really does not have the width for rear tires set at 200mm front and rear. Anyone else find this? I have two other bodies coming so we'll see how these fit and run as well. Lastly, just as was noted in a post above, I'd let the use of some other wing to be used and maybe a splitter on the front nose to make some downfource, but not change the body lines.
It's funny you mention a splitter .... I extended my front bumper (kydex) to act as a splitter. It is VERY protective of the front suspension in some quite horrible crashes I've been involved in lately. Not sure how much of an aero effect it is producing though, because I haven't run the car without it. FYI, the splitter is flush with the chassis, not mounted above the chassis level like most pancar bumpers are. Ride height needs to be monitored often because excessive rake of the chassis will cause the splitter to touch down.

As for the body width, my rear tires fit nicely beneath the newer of the two HPI Vipers (GTS-R).

Adrian, I have my front track width right at 200mm and the car has a TON of steering. I can't imagine how it would drive if it were narrower. What other effects does a wide front track have on handling, besides outright front traction. Turn-in, stability, etc?
Attached Thumbnails
GT10 Class-viper.jpg  
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:01 AM   #268
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,674
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
FYI, pan cars won't handle right if you have the front and rear width the same. The front of the car should be ~10mm narrower than the rear for weight to transfer properly. 1/12th cars and 235mm Pro-10 care are like this too. Narrow it up and you will get more steering and less front tire wear.

You have mount bodies carefully and make sure the rear axle is spaced right to get the tires to fit under the body. Most 200mm bodies are actually 204-208mm wide at the rear so any type of 200mm chassis will fit the wheels under with no rubbing. If you measure the width of the rear axle and it truly is 198-202mm it will fit under just about any 200mm body. Depending on tires the DB10R proto is 200mm(Jaco) to 202mm(BSR) wide with the axles shimmed and centered properly. We made the DB10R production car 2mm narrower so BSR's will fit.
I spaced the front track out to take steering out of the car (do the same on my 1/12 stuff as well). The HPI Corvette probably needs to be in the 196 to keep the tires from hitting the inside body. I do have the car faily soft in the rear sided to side to help get better grip outisde on a low grip track.

I understand the different rear tires have different offsets. So everything was set for that set of tires, and Corally, GRP, PArma, BSR, Jaco .... all have different offsets. I sometimes use this to tune oval cars.

Thanks for the quick relpy
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 09:06 AM   #269
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,674
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
It's funny you mention a splitter .... I extended my front bumper (kydex) to act as a splitter. It is VERY protective of the front suspension in some quite horrible crashes I've been involved in lately. Not sure how much of an aero effect it is producing though, because I haven't run the car without it. FYI, the splitter is flush with the chassis, not mounted above the chassis level like most pancar bumpers are. Ride height needs to be monitored often because excessive rake of the chassis will cause the splitter to touch down.

As for the body width, my rear tires fit nicely beneath the newer of the two HPI Vipers (GTS-R).

Adrian, I have my front track width right at 200mm and the car has a TON of steering. I can't imagine how it would drive if it were narrower. What other effects does a wide front track have on handling, besides outright front traction. Turn-in, stability, etc?
I ran SCCA in a Sportrs 2000 and the front splitter was a HUGH tuning tool and what you have done is exactly like I was thinking!!

Looks like the Viper has a little more room above the tires (body does not come in as quickly.
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 07:25 AM   #270
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

This could be a fun class for sure. with Vipers and Corvettes and Supras (oh my) and assorted other GT bodies hitting the track. Im looking forward to reading about Scotty's World GT concept too.

This sort of thing makes me want to go out and buy an L3T off ebay, a brushless system and some 4 cell packs and do some testing of my own at my home track (which is about 4 hours away from where I am right now)

Last edited by trackdesigner71; 04-15-2008 at 01:49 PM.
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GT10 Class bodies Keyz Oval, Larger Scales and More 11 10-09-2008 04:57 PM
GT10 Class Discussion trackdesigner71 Electric On-Road 5 02-18-2008 06:02 AM
HB gt10 mt joe of loath Monster Trucks 0 07-10-2007 05:01 AM
TC3 - Trade For GT10... imscottr R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 08-28-2003 01:56 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:23 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net