SMC 28C 4000/5000 Hardcase Lipo part 2
02-16-2008, 12:46 PM
#46
Hey Danny, got another question. With the packs I am currently running, orion 3200, the first charge I put in the night before, the second charge is put in right after I am done running the pack and the third charge the same way. I only have one pack for tc, and I am running the 13.5. After a 5 minute run it usually takes about 2100-2200 mah to charge. Okay, the first run is good, the second run is the best run of the night, and in the mains, after the pack has been run a couple of times, it isn't quite as fast, but by the next time I race it is back to being how it should. So, I am a little confused. From what you have said about memories of the cells it makes sense that with a 13.5 the third run wouldn't be as good, however why do they bounce back after a few days rest? Also, I don't really want to drop the money on a Turbo 35 gfx with lipo, so I bought a checkpoint charger, which will allow a 30amp pulse discharge for the lipo. Do you think this will be sufficient?
02-16-2008, 09:55 PM
#47
Please don't attempt any of the tests I'm performing or use a charge rate higher than 1C. Never warmup your Lipo packs. Doing any of this can result in fire and can be dangerous
I don't think repeaking your pack without discharging is the way to go. I think it's best to fully discharge it then immediately charge it back up as close to your run as possible.
As far as 30 amp pulse diacharge goes I think it will not be very effective. So far in my testing charging at 12 amps has yielded better results than 5 amps and by charging after the pack has been discharged at 35 amps which gets the packs temp to 140 degrees Farenheit seems to yield the best results.
As I find out more info I will pass it along but so far I definately see an improvement in using a 12amp charge rate and charging the pack back up after it has been discharged at 35 amps and has reached 140 degrees. Now I need ot figure out if I can get the pack to be 140 degrees without discharging it will it be the same. This will be hard to test but I'm working on it.
I don't think repeaking your pack without discharging is the way to go. I think it's best to fully discharge it then immediately charge it back up as close to your run as possible.
As far as 30 amp pulse diacharge goes I think it will not be very effective. So far in my testing charging at 12 amps has yielded better results than 5 amps and by charging after the pack has been discharged at 35 amps which gets the packs temp to 140 degrees Farenheit seems to yield the best results.
As I find out more info I will pass it along but so far I definately see an improvement in using a 12amp charge rate and charging the pack back up after it has been discharged at 35 amps and has reached 140 degrees. Now I need ot figure out if I can get the pack to be 140 degrees without discharging it will it be the same. This will be hard to test but I'm working on it.
Last edited by Danny/SMC; 02-19-2008 at 11:19 AM.
02-16-2008, 10:04 PM
#48
Danny I can help you get your packs to 140... and anyone else too if they want. 
I'm sitting on the fence right now... whether to put it on the market or not. A little profit may not be worth it. I don't want to be liable for what may happen/ what abuse might be done with a lipo warmer....
I'm sitting on the fence right now... whether to put it on the market or not. A little profit may not be worth it. I don't want to be liable for what may happen/ what abuse might be done with a lipo warmer....
02-16-2008, 10:12 PM
#49
As I do more testing with temperature I will see if it does the same as discharging then charging back up. I will try more than 140 and I will also try more than 35 amps for discharge.
I may have to show up at the Nats with an oven.LOL
I may have to show up at the Nats with an oven.LOL
02-16-2008, 10:23 PM
#51
All my info is based on the serious racer who races in types of racing where speed is important. If you run in such a class then Lipos will need to be treated in certain ways to keep them at there best. If you race for the fun of the hobby or in classes where speed is not critical then all of this is not important and you can just keep repeaking your Lipos.
Lipos seem to accept a better charge when they are warm/hot. I have yet to figure out the ideal temperature but I'm working on it.
Lipos seem to accept a better charge when they are warm/hot. I have yet to figure out the ideal temperature but I'm working on it.
02-16-2008, 10:26 PM
#52
All my info is based on the serious racer who races in types of racing where speed is important. If you run in such a class then Lipos will need to be treated in certain ways to keep them at there best. If you race for the fun of the hobby or in classes where speed is not critical then all of this is not important and you can just keep repeaking your Lipos.
Lipos seem to accept a better charge when they are warm/hot. I have yet to figure out the ideal temperature but I'm working on it.
Lipos seem to accept a better charge when they are warm/hot. I have yet to figure out the ideal temperature but I'm working on it.
02-16-2008, 10:33 PM
#53
i have had Orion 3200's 4800's and now 3600's and they all seem pretty much the same. On the other hand i have also had Maxamps 6000's and a 4400 split pack and they were good for maybe 20 runs then it seemed as if they didn't have the initial punch anymore. what makes them so much different?
02-16-2008, 10:35 PM
#54
That is because they have some memory effect and all we have been told about Lipos isn't actually true when you want to extract maximum performance out of them.
The numbers I posted above should show everyone what I'm talking about. If you own a discharger that can discharge at 30/35 amps or even more next time your at the track discharge your Orion pack down to 6 volts and immediately start charging it after it just finished the discharge. You should notice more power/punch.
My biggest fear about Lipos is that it will end up costing more than sub-c packs. All the so called benefits of using Lipos don't seem to be true. When I mention this I get attacked and blamed of wanting to protect my battery matching business but the truth is that I want racing to be as fair as possible and don't want it to become the pack of the month or racers having to purchase 4-5 packs at 140 bucks and super high amp rate dischargers to remain competitive.
The numbers I posted above should show everyone what I'm talking about. If you own a discharger that can discharge at 30/35 amps or even more next time your at the track discharge your Orion pack down to 6 volts and immediately start charging it after it just finished the discharge. You should notice more power/punch.
My biggest fear about Lipos is that it will end up costing more than sub-c packs. All the so called benefits of using Lipos don't seem to be true. When I mention this I get attacked and blamed of wanting to protect my battery matching business but the truth is that I want racing to be as fair as possible and don't want it to become the pack of the month or racers having to purchase 4-5 packs at 140 bucks and super high amp rate dischargers to remain competitive.
02-16-2008, 10:38 PM
#55
That is because they have some memory effect and all we have been told about Lipos isn't actually true when you want to extract maximum performance out of them.
The numbers I posted above should show everyone what I'm talking about. If you own a discharger that can discharge at 30/35 amps or even more next time your at the track discharge your Orion pack down to 6 volts and immediately start charging it after it just finished the discharge. You should notice more power/punch.
My biggest fear about Lipos is that it will end up costing more than sub-c packs. All the so called benefits of using Lipos don't seem to be true. When I mention this I get attacked and blamed of wanting to protect my battery matching business but the truth is that I want racing to be as fair as possible and don't want it to become the pack of the month or racers having to purchase 4-5 packs at 140 bucks and super high amp rate dischargers to remain competitive.
The numbers I posted above should show everyone what I'm talking about. If you own a discharger that can discharge at 30/35 amps or even more next time your at the track discharge your Orion pack down to 6 volts and immediately start charging it after it just finished the discharge. You should notice more power/punch.
My biggest fear about Lipos is that it will end up costing more than sub-c packs. All the so called benefits of using Lipos don't seem to be true. When I mention this I get attacked and blamed of wanting to protect my battery matching business but the truth is that I want racing to be as fair as possible and don't want it to become the pack of the month or racers having to purchase 4-5 packs at 140 bucks and super high amp rate dischargers to remain competitive.
02-16-2008, 10:41 PM
#57
i have had Orion 3200's 4800's and now 3600's and they all seem pretty much the same. On the other hand i have also had Maxamps 6000's and a 4400 split pack and they were good for maybe 20 runs then it seemed as if they didn't have the initial punch anymore. what makes them so much different?
In my testing all the Orion packs have similar IR and average voltage with the only difference being capacity.
If your looking for more powerful packs you should look into our new 4000 or 5000 pack I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.
Lipos are being made by many different companies so there is a big difference in quality between different manufacturers. You can compare this to sub-c cells. If you look at a cell used in a 25 dollar 3000 stick pack it looks similar to a 50 dollar 4600 stick pack which uses the low IR cells with high average voltage. Bottom line you normally get what you pay for. I know that our supplier buys the best materials available to build our packs. The materials are expensive but the results are very good packs with great performance.
02-16-2008, 10:44 PM
#58
In my testing all the Orion packs have similar IR and average voltage with the only difference being capacity.
If your looking for more powerful packs you should look into our new 4000 or 5000 pack I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.
Lipos are being made by many different companies so there is a big difference in quality between different manufacturers. You can compare this to sub-c cells. If you look at a cell used in a 25 dollar 3000 stick pack it looks similar to a 50 dollar 4600 stick pack which uses the low IR cells with high average voltage. Bottom line you normally get what you pay for. I know that our supplier buys the best materials available to build our packs. The materials are expensive but the results are very good packs with great performance.
If your looking for more powerful packs you should look into our new 4000 or 5000 pack I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.
Lipos are being made by many different companies so there is a big difference in quality between different manufacturers. You can compare this to sub-c cells. If you look at a cell used in a 25 dollar 3000 stick pack it looks similar to a 50 dollar 4600 stick pack which uses the low IR cells with high average voltage. Bottom line you normally get what you pay for. I know that our supplier buys the best materials available to build our packs. The materials are expensive but the results are very good packs with great performance.
02-16-2008, 10:46 PM
#59
Please don't attempt any of the tests I'm performing or use a charge rate higher than 1C. Never warmup your Lipo packs. Doing any of this can result in fire and can be dangerous
To discharge a Lipo you need a discharger that can be set at a 3 volt cutoff per cell so for a 7.4v pack you stop discharghing at 6 volts. I believe one of the keys to make the packs perform better is to get them warm/hot. So far by using a 35 amp discharge on a fully charged pack I'm seeing good results. The temperature is 140 degrees. I'm going to purchase equipment that will allow me to discharge up to 100 amps to see if helps the pack some more.
If your serious about racing and plan on racing for awhile I would reccomend you by a Competition Electronics Lipo T35GFX. This is a great charger/discharger.
To discharge a Lipo you need a discharger that can be set at a 3 volt cutoff per cell so for a 7.4v pack you stop discharghing at 6 volts. I believe one of the keys to make the packs perform better is to get them warm/hot. So far by using a 35 amp discharge on a fully charged pack I'm seeing good results. The temperature is 140 degrees. I'm going to purchase equipment that will allow me to discharge up to 100 amps to see if helps the pack some more.
If your serious about racing and plan on racing for awhile I would reccomend you by a Competition Electronics Lipo T35GFX. This is a great charger/discharger.
Last edited by Danny/SMC; 02-19-2008 at 11:21 AM.