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Old 08-03-2008, 08:25 PM   #946
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We don't have the top wire update available yet. They will only be in by the last week of August so we will have some in Vegas.
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:32 PM   #947
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We don't have the top wire update available yet. They will only be in by the last week of August so we will have some in Vegas.
I had a feeling that was still the case...you must need a few test guinee pigs for them early though.

I know Danny will tell me NO...but has anyone had luck slotting the pack with dremel then moving wires??

One other LiPo question...If I'm using a bit over 90% of my packs Mah is it going to severly effect how long the pack lasts?? Trying to figure out why I'm dumping all the sudden.
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:35 PM   #948
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We don't have the top wire update available yet. They will only be in by the last week of August so we will have some in Vegas.
For sale? LOL
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:09 PM   #949
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If there is no delays and shipping issues the packs will be for sale in Vegas.
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:15 PM   #950
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I had a feeling that was still the case...you must need a few test guinee pigs for them early though.

I know Danny will tell me NO...but has anyone had luck slotting the pack with dremel then moving wires??

One other LiPo question...If I'm using a bit over 90% of my packs Mah is it going to severly effect how long the pack lasts?? Trying to figure out why I'm dumping all the sudden.

You can try to change the wires position but if you alter the case the pack will not be ROAR legal anymore.

I have never done tests on the difference between a partial discharge and full discharge on Lipos but I know some of the oval racers are discharging there packs down to 6 volts as they seem to think the packs run better when fully discharged. The cycle life has been very good on the packs but I know in theory discharging a pack down is suppose to hurt cycle life but were not sure by how much.

How were you storing your Orion pack ? In some of the tests I have done storing Lipos with more than 50% charge will tend to reduce some of the capacity. I reccomend 20-30% when using the pack frequently and 50% when storing it for awhile.
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:27 PM   #951
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You can try to change the wires position but if you alter the case the pack will not be ROAR legal anymore.

I have never done tests on the difference between a partial discharge and full discharge on Lipos but I know some of the oval racers are discharging there packs down to 6 volts as they seem to think the packs run better when fully discharged. The cycle life has been very good on the packs but I know in theory discharging a pack down is suppose to hurt cycle life but were not sure by how much.

How were you storing your Orion pack ? In some of the tests I have done storing Lipos with more than 50% charge will tend to reduce some of the capacity. I reccomend 20-30% when using the pack frequently and 50% when storing it for awhile.
I mostly ran them in 13.5 and kept them with prob. 1400 mah till day before race. Only maybe a couple of times I didn't race and they sat 1 week on full charge before I ran them.

Thing is they all balanced in 15 seconds or so, and took full charges (close to 3300 that go in after a mod race). So...that means at 3300 mah mark I'm feeling a significant drop...never noticed this in 13.5. In mod packs come off @ 135+ degs. or so also.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:27 PM   #952
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I know with our packs I stored one for 10 days with a full charge and it lost 10 seconds of runtime at 35amps and it never cameback. The IR and voltage stayed the same.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:44 AM   #953
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How do you tell that it's 20-30 or 50% charged? by voltage or ...? or is it just an estimate based on historical run times?
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:32 AM   #954
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You want to go by milliamps you're putting back in the pack. From 6.0 volts your pack should come up to about 4000 to 5000 on a full charge so for 50% charge divide that number by two (2000 or 2500) and the same for 20% to 30%.
Another way is monitoring the seconds you put back into the pack. If you know how many seconds it takes to fully charge your pack from 6.0 volts use the same math.
The important part is to make sure you have discharged your pack to 6.0 volts (but no more than 6.0 if you go below that your pack will never perform the same) than start your store charge.
Hope that helps,
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:49 AM   #955
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Has anyone witnessed or "heard rumor" of those toping off LiPo's to 8.8V which I hear is about 5 minutes at 6amps after full charge? This scares the crap out of me...and I know its aready started. How dangerous is this...really?
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:00 AM   #956
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Has anyone witnessed or "heard rumor" of those toping off LiPo's to 8.8V which I hear is about 5 minutes at 6amps after full charge? This scares the crap out of me...and I know its aready started. How dangerous is this...really?
Overcharging Lipos is dangerous and shouldn't be done. Racers doing this will have an advantage as overcharging Lipos increases capacity and voltage and lower the IR.

Track owners need to tech for this.

A year or so ago I warned everyone that Lipos would be no different than sub-c cells as there would be better packs and there would be ways to make them run better. I was told that I was just trying to start crap as I owned a matching business and that I was scared to be out of business. I now sit back and see what I predicted is true and were not out of business but we do have allot of Lipo packs on backorder.

I must admit that I think Lipo will work for high end racing but track owners will need to tech for overcharge and I would not allow heating of the packs as if everyone starts doing it would be the same if no one does it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:04 AM   #957
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Danny,

You have a pm..... Or call me

Mike..

Back to the discussion sorry
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:00 AM   #958
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Overcharging Lipos is dangerous and shouldn't be done. Racers doing this will have an advantage as overcharging Lipos increases capacity and voltage and lower the IR.
Well not to play devils advocate...but this is just what a certain percentage will look for to gain advantage...especially once they believe others are doing it, it will snowball to where you "have to" to keep up.

Has anyone ran tests...can you continually charge to 8.8 explosion free with just a loss of life? Surely there is a safe limit here and people will find it, and there has to be some margin for safety that the pack can give back some of and be relitively safe, right?

I have no intent to do this, just want to know "how much danger" me or kids at the track may be in.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:08 AM   #959
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That is one of the major problems with Lipos and should be addressed by the race director/track owner. It's easy to have a voltmeter in tech and check the packs prior to putting them on the track. If a racer is found with an overcharged pack he should be kicked out of the club/track.

Overcharging is cheating and shouldn't be tolerated. Our packs are able to be overcharged and not have any major issues but that doesn't mean all packs are the same and all it takes is for one pack to catch on fire in the pits.


Tracks should follow ROAR rules so the packs should be 8.44 or lower in tech and packs should be charged in a Lipo sack. We shouldn't screw around with safety.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:50 AM   #960
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I've been running lipo's since the first SMC 5000 softpack. The only times I've seen one overcharge are when the racer blatently does it, or when a charger is set wrong (left in NIMH mode.) At the ROAR regionals the race director checked every lipo car for voltage before they went to the track. The limit was 8.44 volts. I saw several cars get turned around for being too high, whether it was 8.45 or 9 volts. I'm pretty sure they do this on a weekly basis. As long as guys know it will be checked, they'll think twice about overcharging. But, the race director also has to have the balls to turn them around and not let them run that round when they are above the 8.44 limit.
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