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Old 02-14-2008, 02:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
So you are making heli packs too, if they stand up to the evo 25's I will probably buy a couple so long as the pricing doesn't break the bank. Okay, you don't want to post comparisons between your packs and others, I understand and at the same time don't understand. You don't want other manufactures getting mad at you <- this I understand, no need to burn bridges if you ever have to get different cells, but not providing data on other packs just makes your statement speculation, whether true or not, there is no available fact.
On the contrary...we are the ones showing everyone else what these packs cycle out at. If we didn't feel it mattered, we would not do it. If we didn't feel that the consumer needs to know how to quantify the quality of their purchase, we wouldn't do it. Anyone can claim a C rate or a performance edge. This may help keep everyone honest. Personally, I don't think any manufacturer is intentionally trying to mislead the consumer. This technology is new and constantly changing so it is difficult to keep pace.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:53 PM   #32
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We offer 2 Heli packs at the moment. One is for the Blade CP which is a 7.4/800/22C and they other is a 11.1v/2100/25C. Were releasing a 11.1v/2200/25C pack that is a bit lighter than our current 2100 pack.

As far as posting other companies numbers I don't feel it's the proper way to do business. It's not because I think I may need to work with these companies as our current Lipo supplier is all we need and they will keep on making improvements as they are very committed at supplying us with the best possible high C rate Lipos.


As far as me claiming that are packs are as good if not better is based on my testing. I have not tested every Lipo pack on the market and I'm sure there could be some that are better than what I tested.

Here is what I tested so far:

Orion 3200 , 3600 and 4800

Trackpower 4900/20C not the new 25C

Thunder Power 5000/20C 2S1P pack which is to big for RC cars.

Core RC 5000/20C
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nhra6849 View Post
Danny, are you guy's going to come out with a hard case lipo saddle pack for some of the offroad guy's? Just bought a B44 and wanting a hard case lipo!
Were looking into this but cost of tooling for the cells and the hardcase may make it hard to justify as I'm not sure the 4wd offroad market is that big.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:05 PM   #34
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Hey Danny,

Do you have any plans to get into the bigger batteries for larger electric aircraft? The 11.1v 2100mah size is really popular in smaller stuff, but in other applications we are using up to 10 or 12s setups for heli's.

-Korey
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:27 PM   #35
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We will look into expanding our Lipo line but as you already know there is so many different packs available and then when you firgure that 2 to 6 cell packs it makes allot of different combinations and inventory to stock. We may try and focus on some of the more popular ones.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:35 PM   #36
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Were looking into this but cost of tooling for the cells and the hardcase may make it hard to justify as I'm not sure the 4wd offroad market is that big.
You're kidding, right? 4wd offroad is growing faster than ever. There are more top competition 4wd buggies available now than ever before. And most of them need saddle packs. B44, BJ4WE, D4, D4WE, 501X, etc. Too bad you're letting Maxamps get all of the business.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:57 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by RussB View Post
i was going to, but i decided to wait to see what goodies the new roar rules brought...

that and i'm waiting on my tax return
Ahhh

You should come out to SWR this sat
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:01 PM   #38
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We will look into it but once again it's cost versus what we feel we can sell.

I know some will doubt what I'm about to say but our Lipos cost allot of money due to the materials used to make them. Since SMC sells to distributors who then sell to stores it's impossible for us to compete with pricing from companies who sell directly. This means our profit margins are real low but we focus on volume as most stores will not support companies who sell directly.

I will talk to our supplier and see what we can come up with as far as mAh and C rate and at what price then will make the decision.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:12 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Were looking into this but cost of tooling for the cells and the hardcase may make it hard to justify as I'm not sure the 4wd offroad market is that big.
Amen Danny - I'll second that comment
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:17 AM   #40
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Danny,

I've been cycling some of my brand "X" packs with the Turbo, since this one only gets used with Lipo's I soldered the sensing leads directly to the Deans plug with the voltage leads. Do you see a problem with that? Looks like that is what you are doing, just with the alligator clips.

This may not be something you are ready to discuss...but how do you think or what are your guys seeing with the average voltage numbers in comparison to say a Nimh? I know none of the Lipo's I have tested so far have the punch of my top shelf Nimh's, but none of them have as high of average voltage either. What I am struggling to understand is the relationship of the two cell types. Since we know a Lipo does not drop of as bad through a run is it a fair comparison?

Just curious as to your findings and thoughts.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:22 PM   #41
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I assume your using a Lipo GFX ?

Your voltage sensing leads will give you the same results as what I'm getting.


What brand Lipos are you cycling ? How many cycles have you done on them ?


Our new Lipos will have similar voltage to NiMh and the IR will be lower.

Our current 22C/5000 pack seems to run similar to NiMh on the track and the the voltage and IR isn't as good as our new packs so we think our new packs will be very good on the track if you can get your car balanced out.
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Old 02-15-2008, 11:26 PM   #42
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All of the ones I've cycled are less than 20 runs on them since new.

So far most of the average voltages have been in the 7.10 - 7.17 range and IR's have been everywhere.

I don't want to mention any names of the ones that I got low average voltages on out of respect for them. I will however mention that the Core from Schumacher had average voltages that were in the 7.3 plus range on its first few cycles out of the box. I was impressed, and so far it is the only one I've seen that approaches a Nimh voltage.

It will be interesting to run the Core, and eventually your new packs, to see if the "old" method of cycling them to get meaningful numbers and trying to quantify the batteries power output holds up as the best method to measure these things by. I think everyone (average racer) is struggling with the C rating/mah, cell construction, etc...

Thanks for taking the first step in that direction, hopefully it proves out that the numbers are still meaningful and others will have to follow suit. It would be nice to get back into a standard meaure by which we rate new batteries.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:55 AM   #43
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Please don't attempt any of the tests I'm performing or use a charge rate higher than 1C. Never warmup your Lipo packs. Doing any of this can result in fire and can be dangerous

I believe that testing a pack on GFX is still meaningful with Lipos but it won't tell you everything as C rate is also important.

Most packs I have tested are in the 7.02-7.18 range. Our 22C/5000 pack is in the 7.22-7.28 range.

When you have run your packs on the track and if they have been sitting for awhile you should be getting lower voltage and higher IR when you cycle them. If you want to get the voltage back up and IR back down you should cycle the packs a few times. If you want even better numbers cycle the pack using a 12 amp charge and as soon as the cycle is finished and you have written down the numbers start another cycle using a 12 amp charge. This will give you lower IR and higher average voltage and possibly a few more seconds of runtime.

Last edited by Danny/SMC; 02-19-2008 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:42 PM   #44
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Is there a negative effect on the lifespan of the batteries or anything else from charging at a 12 amp rate?
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:20 PM   #45
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Please don't attempt any of the tests I'm performing or use a charge rate higher than 1C. Never warmup your Lipo packs. Doing any of this can result in fire and can be dangerous

In theory it should be harder on the pack but I know that Tony Moffre only charges at 12 amps and his packs seem to be holding up well. I have 2 packs that I used in offroad and only charged them at 5 amps and they have been sitting with charge in them for 3 months and seem to have lost 20 seconds of runtime. Tonys packs have lost about the same amount of runtime with many more cycles and using a 12 amp charge rate.

I'm trying to test the difference between heating up the pack and cycling it or doing the back to back cycling to see what works best but with any test it takes a bit of time to come to the conclusion.


Here are some results about cycling packs after they have been stored and run on the track.

1st cycle 5amp chg.: 13.2 IR - 503 Sec. - 7.14 V.

2nd cycle 12amp: 11.2 - 506 - 7.21 This cycle was on the next day.

3rd cycle 12amp: 9.4 - 508 - 7.28 This cycle was started immediately after the 2nd cycle finished.


I'm not sure on what this will do to the life expectancy of the packs but as a racer the difference in performance should be noticeable and if you want your packs to run as fast as possible you will need to do something similar to this. I'm sure Tony can say how many cycles he has on some of our 22C/5000 packs and if they are still cycling good.

Last edited by Danny/SMC; 02-19-2008 at 12:18 PM.
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