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Old 02-19-2008, 11:20 AM   #136
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I am not really seeing where Danny is telling anyone to do anything, just simply posting the results of a test.....

And, as for liability....go look up the recommended use for a sub c NICD or NIMH......the way we solder them is outside of it, the way we charge is outside of it, the way we discharge is outside of it, the way we store them is outside of it.....I can keep going.

Assumption of risk is a big factor in a liability lawsuit.......I deal with this stuff every day and I would say Danny has not came any where near crossing the line.

The entire point of this is, just like many people said years ago, the battery nerds like Danny ( ) were going to figure out stuff like this to give racers that slight edge....and this is just only the beginning.......up next matched and zapped cells!

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Old 02-19-2008, 11:20 AM   #137
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There is only one way to solve this. Natural Selection Each racer must get -inside- a fireproof pod with their lipo battery. They can do what ever they want to them but must live with the consequences without hurting others.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:24 AM   #138
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BTW, I would be fine with all this if it were really limited to the "serious" racers. Unfortunately we all have seen the guy that has raced a month and thinks he is "serious".

EddieO, Im not saying SMC would lose in court. But you know as well as I do that doesnt prevent someone from trying.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:31 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
glassdoctor: I understand what your saying but my goal is to point out the challenges I feel that Lipos will have in high end racing. As most will remember I have been against using Lipos in high end racing because I feel it will make racing to be not as competitive as it currently is. I also feel the info we have been given about Lipos being easy to maintain and use may not be as simple as originally thought.
Why are you guys so worried about high-end racing, isn't that what NiMH is for? Last I heard, NiMH isn't going away. And certainly high-end racers won't use LiPo if it's got less voltage.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:33 AM   #140
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Well, nothing suprises me in court after I saw a college professor who believed the world was over populated and did not believe in having kids sue his girlfriend, who had taken out her diaphragm without him knowing and getting prego, for stealing his sperm........his request, to be released from all responsibilities of raising the child..........of course he lost, but he tried.

BRB, my wife has stolen my sperm on at least four occasions that I can prove.......I am calling the cops.


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Old 02-19-2008, 11:37 AM   #141
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I'm no lawyer, but I would think if someone uses your product in a way you recommended, and suffers loss as a result, there may be an issue there. Especially when said recommendations have been otherwise proven to increase the likelihood of catastrophic failure. Hopefully your product liability policy doesn't have any exclusions for this kind of thing.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:43 AM   #142
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How would you feel if you buy 140 dollar pack to go to a big race only to find out that your pack is obsolete because company X has a new pack that is .20 of a second faster on the track and it costs 175.00.

Anyway we can argue and debate all we want time will tell if Lipos or any other technology is or was the way to go.
That's a valid concern, but it's not something that is guaranteed to happen. While it's true that not all packs will be equal, we have no idea yet how big those differences will be. Lipo cells continue to improve so what we have today probably won't match what's available 2-3 years from now.

Based on the last several years of lipo improvements, we won't see new and better cells as often as we have seen before with nimh.

Racers will figure out what the "fast" lipos are... just like has always been the case with batteries and motors. You might have to buy a new $100-150 if a new killer pack comes along. But even IF that happens it's no different or more expensive than nimh since you would need at least 2 nimh for every lipo pack.

Stock motors have never all been the same either, and there have been continual improvements for last 20 years. (btw, brushless doesn't guarantee this won't continue but we don't know that yet either)

And of course, all this only matters in spec (stock) racing.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:49 AM   #143
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Why are you guys so worried about high-end racing, isn't that what NiMH is for? Last I heard, NiMH isn't going away. And certainly high-end racers won't use LiPo if it's got less voltage.
You didn't see the numbers our new packs are producing. Our 5000 has an extra 100 seconds over NiMh with 4 milliohm less IR and average voltage being about the same.

If our packs get ROAR approval we will most likely run them at the Nats assuming that our racers can get the cars balanced correctly as power means nothing if your car handles like crap.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:10 PM   #144
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You didn't see the numbers our new packs are producing. Our 5000 has an extra 100 seconds over NiMh with 4 milliohm less IR and average voltage being about the same.

If our packs get ROAR approval we will most likely run them at the Nats assuming that our racers can get the cars balanced correctly as power means nothing if your car handles like crap.
Oh, I didn't realize the voltage numbers were so close to NiMH! No wonder you guys are paying so much attention. :-)

Another possible advantage for your LiPo drivers is that they can get their car to the exact minimum weight, and possibly move weight around for better ballast, need be.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:24 PM   #145
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You do realize that by finding a "safe" way to get LiPo voltages approaching NiMH, you're probably going to increase people's interest rather than turn them away because it's "bad for high-end racing."

Also, I'd like to see how your tests stack up against cells from Saehan-Enertech. If the hype is true, someone is going to hit the market with those cells for R/C and really shake things up. I can tell you where to get a pack if you'd like to test for yourself.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:42 PM   #146
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I have had said it all along I'm not against Lipos but I just don't believe they will be as simple as we were originally lead to believe plus I fear it will make the racing not as fair and competitive.

That being said my goal is to push our Lipo manufacturer to make the best possible Lipos for racing and the RC flight industry.

As far as testing new packs if you feel there is one that is worth testing let me know what it is and where I can get one as I'm always curious to see what is out there plus our manufacturer tells us we can increase voltage and drop the IR some more if need be.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:52 PM   #147
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The GFX? The best LiPo charger? It's the size of a goddamn VCR, and lacks features of real LiPo chargers! I know this thread is all about being dumb, but can we please draw the line somewhere?


As I said before in the last SMC LiPo thread, I will never buy one of their Lipos and I will tell LiPo noobs to disregard anything that the SMC guys have to say about LiPo. I bet it's very hard for linger to bite his tongue while reading all of this utter nonsense.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:01 PM   #148
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Danny,

John Stranahan has two (epic) threads on this forum regarding his pan car, and his TC5. In the pan car thread especially, he has done a lot of testing with a lot of different LiPos, and found that many of them actually fail under the the stress of a light, 3.5 pan car. The threads are long, but John does a good job of highlighting the important parts, and his findings. You can see them here and here. One thing he discovered, which is something many of us have heard and suspected for a while, is that the Saehan-Enertech cells are amazing. They have outstanding voltage, safety, and cycle life. They appear to be the holy grail of LiPo, though we all know making that claim about any battery is pretty silly.

Anyway, I suspect we might see these cells come to R/C cars in the future, but at this time, the packs are too long for most cars. You can buy them from FMA direct if you'd like to do some testing on your own. Don't believe the dimensions listed on the site, the pack is nearly 160mm long. Presumably, the company is capable of making a shorter cell for use in R/C cars, if they haven't already. I and many others are excited about this one coming to market. You can find some voltages in John's TC5 thread comparing it to other popular brands.

http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?...215&section=69
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:35 PM   #149
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Our original pack was long and thinner as it used 2 cells. For us to be able to make it fit in most RC cars we paid for tooling and got a 2S2P pack which puts out the same performance.

I will look into these packs and see what I come up with. The pack you listed the link for seems to be the proper size for RC cars minus the hardcase.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:44 PM   #150
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Danny,

Have you tried intentionally overcharging the packs to say 8.5v? I'd be curious to see if that increases the voltage over the entire discharge.
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