R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-11-2008, 11:20 PM   #46
Tech Elite
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 4,910
Default

pacifiers anyone...
__________________
Mason McCombs
NewRed Hobbies & Indoor Facility
Off-Road, Dirt Oval, Crawlers & Pullers
Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 10:12 AM   #47
Tech Champion
 
TimPotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Boynton Beach Fl > Randoph NJ
Posts: 7,481
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to TimPotter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
1 point I am trying to make is that a National is less than 3 months away and as of yesterday (when I started talking about this and this morning the list is updated with 1 TC body) we had 1 body approved and it is no longer made. 3 months is not to far off when we start talking preparations and testing..
No it is not far off, and once again, how is this really ROAR's fault ? This set of rules has been on the books for over a year, and manufacturers are well aware of it. ROAR saw the impending situation for the carpet nats, and put a waiver in place to allow the previously approved bodies, so the RACERS still had viable choices.

One diligent manufacturer had a GBS body already approved for the Carpet nats ( Parma), but it would have been a very short ramp to put them into the sales channel. This was still not a good situation for the racers.....

At the point we made the call to do a waiver, the manufacturers were informed no waiver would be approved for the asphalt nats, and they should pick up their pace to ensure they had asphalt bodies ready for the race. As a reminder, ROAR has contacted them.

What else do you want ROAR to do ?

The GBS is a GREAT rule, like it or not. The big problem is getting the parts manufactured and switched over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
In the ROAR by laws it still reads we will have a newsletter. I think the ROAR leaders are letting us down on the newsletter. It was stopped a few years ago in print due to cost. And it went on-line. Now my member dues give what type of value? What is going on in my region? I have no idea because the lack of ROAR officials responsibility in making sure we have a news letter.

People may take this as ROAR bashing but sorry this is truth, and the truth is not always kind. ROAR officials have let us down in the news letter area.
I agree a newsletter should be provided. The whole dues thing, while a newsletter helps to justify them, well is another well beaten horse. If you do not see the value without the newsletter, then you will probably never see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
Ignorance is also the inability to see another point of view. Rules produce a spec. And rules do limit innovation.
I am not sure what you are getting at with this statement, and I am not sure what else can be said, about having a ROUGH set of guidelines to innovate within, but here it goes.

F1, Probably the most innovative motor sport on the planet, still has a group of guidelines they need to work from, especially on the aero side.

I still stand by my first statement about this, your lack of understanding of why this set of guidelines was put into place, is why you have problems with it.

At least 20 industry professionals had input into the GBS guidelines, the entire process was YEARS in the making. The intent, as stated before was to keep Touring Cars, looking like Touring Cars, and not door stops.

The process of checking the body for compliance can be done with a simple ruler and take less time then it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

Also, as a follow on rule, we changed the wording so body manufacturers can submit NON racing bodies. Prior to the GBS, the cars HAD to be raced in a series to be approved. This rule change allowed the manufacturers to not be held hostage by licensing companies, as well as allow them to innovate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
If all the blocks are using the same body rules then can we use a body approved by say efra to run at a ROAR event? Seems like a logical thing and it opens the door to more bodies available.

Racers will use what works on the track. Have you ever scene a Protoform driver running a Parma Alpha at a big carpet race? I sure have. Guys will jump ship to use what works and wins for them.
Well, while that sounds good, we are not at that point yet, maybe in the future. But at the same time, I believe ROAR should still legalize what is within their scope.

To your last comment, I cannot comment on how a drivers integrity and "Win at all Cost" actions are at a big race. Specific racers do what they have to do to win.
__________________
Clean Title & Escrow|p3|TRF|Tamiya|SerpentAmerica|FSEARA|Team Butter|RC 3|Munno |RCTECH #29|EAMotorsports|BMI|Novak|SpeedPassion|RadioPost
TimPotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 11:48 AM   #48
Tech Addict
 
slammin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Benton AR
Posts: 652
Trader Rating: 88 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to slammin
Default

When will these new bodys be available?
__________________
RC Addicts AR
Agama A8t
Agama A215e
Agama A215
Agama A215T
slammin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 03:30 PM   #49
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 620
Default ROAR/GBS Approval

After recieving a phone call yesterday afternoon - forwarded indirectly to me (through Proline) from 2 ROAR officials (neither one was Tim Potter) as to why our bodies are still illegal - I immediatly called one of the two ROAR Body Committee members to confirm that the three revised Protoform bodies (submitted a couple of weeks ago) had indeed been recieved, measured/checked and given a passing grade in regard to the GBS criteria. He did confirm in our conversation all of the above. Why this information had not been forwarded to the proper parties at ROAR is unknown to me.
I'd rather have called the ROAR Body Chairman, but he will not recieve phone calls from me or respond to my attempts to communicate directly. The communication gap widens with every passing year. If the same attitudes and basic "lack of desire to communicate directly" existed toward manufacturers by the sanctioning bodies in "real" car racing like F1, NASCAR, ALMS etc - what a crazy mess auto racing would be the whole world over.

I'm just stating a simple fact - nothing more - nothing less - although I know I'll be accused of ROAR bashing.

*Please note: the original post on this tread stated that the Protoform G6 and DNA1 were still ROAR legal. They may be the case for the time being - however both bodies do not meet GBS dimensions (c-pillars too narrow) and will not be sent in for re-approval. The #1476-00 Stratus "Carpet" was discontinued quite a while ago and thus will not be tweaked into GBS conformity.

The 3 bodies that were apparently given ROAR re-approved recently are:
#1465 Mazda 6
#1476-01 Stratus "AP"
#1487 MazdaSpeed 6

There'll also be an all new GBS Protoform sedan body released for sale this week. It'll be sent in for ROAR approval as well.

The lack of any "real" and meaningfull communication toward the body manufacturers - plus the resignation of the ROAR presedent at such a crucial time has only added to the confusion impo. Exactly how this GBS change would be implemented and integrated smoothly into being within ROAR was never communicated clearly to me or many others directly involved in this whole thing.

As I've stated here in the past, I appologize for any roll I may have had in this confusion. Not trying to hide behind some philosophical "band-aid" excuse or whatever - but for me personally, life in general has had a much more serious series of challenges to deal with, for the last 18 months.

Sincerely - Dale Epp - Protoform
daleepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 03:45 PM   #50
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,211
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Dale, legitimate criticism is not bashing, and yours is one of the most respected opinions of anyone in the industry.

Just remember the people at ROAR are just like us, they have a passion for the sport, but they have real lives as well, and toy car racing should not interfere with real life problems.
jiml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 05:27 PM   #51
Tech Champion
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,524
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Mr. Epp, thank you for for coming on and clearing that up.
skypilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 07:21 PM   #52
Tech Champion
 
JayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 12TH-MAN COUNTRY
Posts: 6,813
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleepp View Post
*Please note: the original post on this tread stated that the Protoform G6 and DNA1 were still ROAR legal. They may be the case for the time being - however both bodies do not meet GBS dimensions (c-pillars too narrow) and will not be sent in for re-approval. The #1476-00 Stratus "Carpet" was discontinued quite a while ago and thus will not be tweaked into GBS conformity.

The 3 bodies that were apparently given ROAR re-approved recently are:
#1465 Mazda 6
#1476-01 Stratus "AP"
#1487 MazdaSpeed 6

There'll also be an all new GBS Protoform sedan body released for sale this week. It'll be sent in for ROAR approval as well.

Sincerely - Dale Epp - Protoform
So basically Dale, the G6 & DNA1 will continue to be produced but won't be approved to run at any ROAR-sanctioned race?
JayBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 07:31 PM   #53
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
So basically Dale, the G6 & DNA1 will continue to be produced but won't be approved to run at any ROAR-sanctioned race?
The G6 is gone.

The DNA did not meet the ROAR rules for the roof. It was to narrow. I believe the DNA is still in production.

A new body for carpet is coming out. Should be real nice from what I am told.


Thanks Dale for you time and comments.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 07:38 PM   #54
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,496
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Dale, thank you for your input. It is ashame that people hold grudges or something but that is their right. I hope things work out for the best for you.

Just a quick question for you though. Did you have to tweak the mold for any of these 3 bodies or are they the same? If tweaked what will/should we notice and feel?
#1465 Mazda 6
#1476-01 Stratus "AP"
#1487 MazdaSpeed 6

Thank you again.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 08:02 PM   #55
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,211
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Ah the heck with this Hey Dale just make a Corvette body that handles!
jiml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 08:46 PM   #56
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

After talking with Dale today. He said those 3 bodies were very close to the specs. I believe he said he had to work the roof a small amount on one and a small wing change. You should not feel any thing on the track. But I am sure someone will.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 08:50 PM   #57
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 620
Default

Kraig;
On each of the 3 molds there were a few dimensions that needed to be shaved down a few millimeters and/or built up a couple of millimeters. Barely noticeable visually - the adjustments were too insignificant to change the performance of any of the bodies - at all.

Jaybee;
Yes, the DNA1 and DNA2 will continue to be sold, however whey will be ineligable whenever ROAR or GBS rules are in place.

One last comment:
In spite of the various issues that are being worked out right now by ROAR and EFRA ,this move toward a set of more defined set of body rules (GlobalBodySpec) is a huge positive step in the right direction for sedan racing - both here and around the world. The trend that started in 1994 toward the "Asian El Camino" type shape was definitely going to be a detriment to the sedan class at some point in time. (remember what happened to slot cars?) I thinks it's very cool that a group of concerned RC entusiasts/racers from a half dozen different countries came together and devised a really decent and simple formula that allows functional bodies, yet still leaves room for individual taste and styling expression. It also allows all the RC body maufacturers to produce race-legal bodies while getting out from under the tyranny of the corporate licensing agencys who are out to take our last dollar - as well as our pocket change. Everybody wins to some degree with an improved formula like this - except possibly a company like Alex Racing.

Have a great weekend guys!


Dale Epp - Protoform
daleepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #58
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Here is an idea from EFRA about bodies that are old stock. This is from the EFRA approved body list for this year.

Here is the link to the letter http://www.efra.se/pages/homologatio...00mm%20(2).pdf

After reviewing this demand have we
realised that drivers who already have bought their racing bodies might stand with unusable product.
We have also considered the consequence this demand would cause hobby shops and wholesalers
who have a stock of approved body shells without the EFRA name and number.
Therefore have EFRA decided that bodies without the EFRA homologation number moulded in
to the windscreen will be allowed to participate at EFRA sanctioned events this racing season.
The bodies must however still be homologated and published on the approved list as below.
NOTE: This exception is only for the racing season this year, after 31st of December 2008
must all bodies have the EFRA Homologation number moulded in as per the picture
above.

It makes sense to me since there are a bunch of hobby shops that have the old bodys. I went to 1 this past weekendd and they still had a Carpet stratus and 2 Mazda 6 bodies. Not the new versions. I know I could order a body but will it be the one I need? Will I have to keep ordering bodies until I get one that I need?
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ROAR Approved LIPOs imjonah Electric On-Road 14 01-31-2008 10:17 AM
ROAR Approved Bodies...interesting!!! rcfoolz Nitro On-Road 5 01-04-2006 09:17 PM
Is this motor ROAR approved? nwilcox88 Electric On-Road 7 08-12-2005 09:40 AM
roar approved bodies brooklynrc Nitro On-Road 3 07-28-2005 09:16 PM
Protoform MG ROAR approved yet? chachi Nitro On-Road 6 06-24-2004 12:57 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:53 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net