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Old 01-29-2008, 09:24 AM   #76
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The added expense of the front end and complications. Actually if you want something with front TC shocks there making something like that in Germany. I can across a protype a few weeks ago.Frankly I'll stick with the current frontend -its simple and the parts are readly available.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:05 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
How do you know it is if its not been tested? I'd run the AE style front end but instead of using those little springs, actualy make it so that you can use TC shocks up front with a shock tower of some sort. It will make better up and down travel, and have smoother shock operation/movement, and should improve handling, and it'll be very easy to adjust and set up, and will probably look better, while we're at it.

Progress...refinement...improvement...its simple enough to come up with and would be nice to compare and see which would work better.
It's all been done and tested, some designs were sold and popular for periods of time and some where left of the prototype bench. There's a reason people keep coming back to the simple, light and efficient designs we have today.

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Old 01-29-2008, 10:14 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Adrian,

Why are you still designing them with 1/12 scale front ends? Cant they be made so that you have front suspension like 1/10 TC's to have better front travel and help prevent blowovers? It doesnt have to be like today's TC front arms, C-hubs, etc...but at least shocks and a shock tower? Is this possible and would it work better than the 1/12 front ends or the 1/12 type front ends are superior than the TC style front ends?
For a few reasons:

1. The Associated dynamic strut front end is a 1/10th and 1/12th front suspension system. When setup for 1/10th cars it uses longer king pins and springs for more travel.

2. It is simple and inexpensive. If sedans are slowing down because of price and over complexity why in the world would we want to head in that direction with Pro-10 cars?

3.So far no one has been able to figure out a better pan car front suspension. The Velodrome pan cars use a more sedan like independent front suspension but it is heavy and it makes the car slower for road course. HPI had a really trick front suspesnsion on their Pro-10 car back in the day but their team drivers switched to the AE suspension because, once again, it was faster.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:28 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
How do you know it is if its not been tested? I'd run the AE style front end but instead of using those little springs, actualy make it so that you can use TC shocks up front with a shock tower of some sort. It will make better up and down travel, and have smoother shock operation/movement, and should improve handling, and it'll be very easy to adjust and set up, and will probably look better, while we're at it.

Progress...refinement...improvement...its simple enough to come up with and would be nice to compare and see which would work better.
I would rather keep this class and the cars simple. If you want more refinement/adjustment/improvments then just race regular TC

CRC has this now...Hopefully we see the BMI production car pics soon too. The ones posted earlier were prototypes I believe.

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Old 01-29-2008, 10:38 AM   #80
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I am so ready for this. I cut my teeth racing RC12's before they had any dedicated suspension. The simplicity of setup and repair was a big plus.

I recently sold all of my nitro TC gear. The hassles with keeping the cars competitive became too great.

My vote on classes would be to go after longer run times at the cost of a bit of speed. 2s LiPo's with a slower BL motor would be a kick.

Sign me up for the CRC version ASAP.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:44 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
I would rather keep this class and the cars simple. If you want more refinement/adjustment/improvments then just race regular TC

CRC has this now...Hopefully we see the BMI production car pics soon too. The ones posted earlier were prototypes I believe.

this car is supposed to be cheaper than a TC right?
it shore don't look it!!
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:25 AM   #82
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Default Looks Like a Great Class

This looks to be a great class and a great way to get people into racing. I am looking forward to seeing where this goes. I have always woundered what happen to this class. I remember seeing the Associated cars running years back and always thought what a great class but I was into the TC cars.

From reading some of the post here some people are making some good points. The cost of a TC car now a days I think is getting out of control and this class could build the hobby back up if we can keep this a simple class with some very stright forward rules to strat off with and get people into it and build off of that. I ask that we all try to keep it a simple class to start out with and build on it.

I believe this could turn out to be very big and a great class. What ever happen to the driver and set up ability and not how much money you can spend to be fast. If we can do something like this and keep the cost down I believe it just may become as big as the TC class. Maybe!

I hope this turns out to be a big class and everyone keeps it simple to keep people in it. I guess we will just ahve to wait and see.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:47 PM   #83
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I never raced when Pan Car were around but this is my take...

Touring car took off more because people related more to the bodies being used then the cars themselves. I know when I started I liked that I could run a Mustang body and my buddy ran a Celica on our TC3s. Eventually we started to run Stratus/Mazda6 like everyone else.

It's harder for someone starting the hobby to related to a Speed 12 or whatever style 1/12th body.

Now these Pan Cars w/ GT style bodies or like Mustangs, Corvettes that BMI has been using would be sweet. It adds to the realism of the cars and racing. Plus people relate more to those bodies.

==

I still take Trans Am as the biggest example of this. The class is growing faster at club levels then anything else out there. It's a great class and if you like old muscle cars it's even better. Now for some like this Pro10 to take off and use more modern bodies would be perfect. Both classes would be low cost and fun. If the cars had manageable speed and racing was close that would be key.
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:26 PM   #84
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I think it would be cool to have a American muscle GT kind of concept (Corvettes. Mustangs, Vipers, Charger SRT8s, Ford GTs, etc) for this would be pretty cool
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:30 PM   #85
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I agree with nexus. I also wish 1/12 were sedan like bodies also. I think it would get a lot more popular then
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:35 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedybill View Post
this car is supposed to be cheaper than a TC right?
it shore don't look it!!
I think CRC posted they are trying for under $300 for this one in the CRC thread.
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #87
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http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/images..._ac233_002.jpg this body would be cool
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:22 PM   #88
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Default CRC site and HPI Bodies

I was just on the CRC site looking at the car and boy it looks great and very well done. I also noticed they refered you to the HPI site for bodies and boy the bodies they have look great and I hope this class takes off. I have been out of RC racing for over 6 years and this has now got my attention. I want to race again!

Is this class going to be the next big thing in RC?
Are your local tracks talking about starting up this class?
Who else is making this type of car?

I am excited about RC Racing again! Boy I sound like a little kid.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:24 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by GSP View Post
I was just on the CRC site looking at the car and boy it looks great and very well done. I also noticed they refered you to the HPI site for bodies and boy the bodies they have look great and I hope this class takes off. I have been out of RC racing for over 6 years and this has now got my attention. I want to race again!

Is this class going to be the next big thing in RC?
Are your local tracks talking about starting up this class?
Who else is making this type of car?

I am excited about RC Racing again! Boy I sound like a little kid.
well the main problem with pan cars like this. You need a really smooth track.. and setting it up with no tweek isn't as easy as a TC. I remember back when pro 10 was run.. it wasn't a very beginner friendly class.. I am just glad I get tires cheap lmao..
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:56 PM   #90
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One of the things that really "makes or breaks" how realistic or cool a racecar looks is the relationship of wheel & tire size to the size and shape of the car. Running a full bodied GT1 (Corvette, Ferrari, Aston Martin type GT1's) or TransAm body requires a tire and wheel that's a bit bigger - otherwise it looks like a car on roller skates or an old Mini Cooper or something.

However - smaller OD tires look ok when matched up with LeMans Prototypes or Daytona Prototype styles of bodies.

Having said that, I like the thought of using currently available touring sedan wheels and tires, especially the rubber ones. NOT for all 200mm pan cars but in a class where taller GT1 and TransAm style bodies are in use. The other advantage to the narrower taller whell/tire format is the fact it would prevent the cars from being too ballistic fast - hence a little more attractive to the newcomer of novice. I realize that special hub adapters would need to me made - but I know for a fact someone is already working on them. Yokomo once had a pan car with reg. sedan wheels on it many years ago - but I don't think it ever made it into production. I know they had a pretty trick looking hub for the diff. side of the axle.

Just for reference sake - the Porsche 911 GT body in the photo is 194mm wide at the front, 204mm across the rear with 55mm front tires and 59mm rears. Tire size looks pretty good - but in my opinon are little on the small side of things.

Just some food for thought.

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