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Old 02-24-2008, 08:32 PM   #706
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The key is to start running the cars,see what works for you and your local track, and enjoy them. You can run whatever you like. That is what makes this a hobby. If it does become a national level class,rules will be made and we will need to follow them. At this point there are too many options and limited number of people running the cars. Lets start out as a run what ya brung class and let the class form itself. It will happen.
I totally agree.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:54 PM   #707
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No reason there can't end up being a different rules for the same class developed AFTER they start running. T/C have stock, superstock, Mod, Rubber tire as well as local variations. Even ROAR encourages local adaptations to the GUIDELINES

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A123 is releasing a 6.6V brick pack the same size as all the other packs, so I may give that a try when I am ready to dismiss 4-Cell.
You must have stock in these A123, no offense meant, but you mention them in most of you posts.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:33 PM   #708
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I found the article about the 2000 worlds in one of my old issues of RCCA.
Masami won with a Yokomo YRX10 with reedy 8 turns and Sanyo 3000 Mah NiMH packs.

Races were only 4 minutes.

No wonder speeds were ballistic.

The top Pro10 cars turned more laps in 4 minutes than the same world class drivers running touring in 5 minutes!

That's why I agree that 6cell modified is only suited for large outdoor tracks (like my hometrack).

For smaller tracks power down to have fun.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:28 PM   #709
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Get the cars built and out to the many people who want to race them then the internet racers can move on to some other thread.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:30 PM   #710
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
You must have stock in these A123, no offense meant, but you mention them in most of you posts.
Nope, I wished I did. Then I could convert my 2007 Hyunida Sonata to Brushless / Lithium.

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Old 02-25-2008, 01:22 AM   #711
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All's I know is this, Pro10's used to be great fun. The speed and handling was such a buzz. To restrict that by using 4 cells, 19t or stock motors seems to go against the very essence of this class. Like someone else said, let the public buy and use the things first, see what happens with that and then make the rules. Pro10's in Germany and Holland are still going strong, and guess what, they use 6 cell packs and brushless motors! That must be awesome!!!
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:50 AM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro ten Holland View Post
I found the article about the 2000 worlds in one of my old issues of RCCA.
Masami won with a Yokomo YRX10 with reedy 8 turns and Sanyo 3000 Mah NiMH packs.

Races were only 4 minutes.

No wonder speeds were ballistic.

The top Pro10 cars turned more laps in 4 minutes than the same world class drivers running touring in 5 minutes!

That's why I agree that 6cell modified is only suited for large outdoor tracks (like my hometrack).

For smaller tracks power down to have fun.
But you're forgetting that that year, the Pro10, Touring and 12th scale cars all ran a different layout around Yatabe... The Pro10s had the least complex layout in which to battle... I can find the old diagrams from the web if you would like to see them (out of interest).

Daniel
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:54 AM   #713
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A few observations:

1) If Pro10 w/six cells as we USED to race 'em was a viable class...we'd STILL be racin' them. On a wide level, not just a few scattered pockets of diehards. I LOVED the class (probably my favorite in RC) but face the facts, the market killed it. If people were still amped to buy them the mfr's wouldn't have quit making them. Hell, I'd bet money there are more people actively racing Vintage TA than 235 pan, and VTA was JUST invented.

2) I agree--you don't need ALL the rules hashed out ahead of time, but getting the basics set before people get all invested (financially AND emotionally) in whatever their little corner of the globe decides is "THE one true way". All I have to do is look at what happened with spec Brushless to see this is true. When ROAR got ready to make a decision the lines were drawn for spec...people who had 17.5 motors were "for" 17.5 being the new Stock, people who had 13.5 motors were "for" them being the new stock. Folks who already had 10.5 motors were "for" them being the new SuperStock and, oddly enough, people who had 13.5 were "for" them being the new SuperStock (guess they thought they'd run both classes w/ one motor ). There was a LOT of acrimony from all points and ROAR, as I've mentioned before, pulled a King Solomon and cut the baby in half.

By all means, run what ya'll want. I can't wait to get one of these babies and see what shakes out. Just watched some short videos Stormer took up in Canada of 4-cell/13.5 and that bad boy looked PLENTY fast on a fair-to-big carpet track...bigger than what the "major" carpet races are run on. I'd probably rather go 17.5.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:35 PM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman2 View Post
All's I know is this, Pro10's used to be great fun. The speed and handling was such a buzz. To restrict that by using 4 cells, 19t or stock motors seems to go against the very essence of this class. Like someone else said, let the public buy and use the things first, see what happens with that and then make the rules. Pro10's in Germany and Holland are still going strong, and guess what, they use 6 cell packs and brushless motors! That must be awesome!!!
The speed and handling were amazing... So why aren't we still doing it? Because the speed and handling were so amazing that only a handful of drivers in the world can actually drive them.

Until a person has been in a heat full of average club racers with unlimted 1/10th pan power, you don't realize just how silly it is for 98% of the people you know. I've driven and raced pan car with low turn brushless motors and lipo... it's crazy fast, diff stripping stupidity on wheels. Every corner somebody is loose, bouncing off a wall, or shooting sideways through traffic.

Watch these 2 videos. This is an average 200mm pan car, un-tuned, no practice, NOT dialed in. 4 cells and a 10.5 on a 48x100 carpet track. Could have been geared to go faster, and absolutely tuned to rotate the corners faster. I'm pretty confident mod touring times could be run with this car, with a minimal amount of tuning. And THAT, makes it too fast.

If people feel that's it's good for this class to be "fast", why is it the fastest classes at any major race are the poorest in terms of entrys? And to say that you can't compete with factory guys is crapola. You can officially have to much power and make time, and have been able to do that for years now. There's no excuse, other than guess what? The cars are to fast.

Why is it at most club level racing, stock times and mod times are very close? Sometimes stock is faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItN8b...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtCd1U-uIKg
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:50 PM   #715
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our Local club tried 4-cell 19t 1/10 pan car and it was the slowest most pathetic class I have ever seen to this day! $50.00 4 cells "8 of them" and $60.00 19turn Motors and it could'nt get out of it's own way. You would of been better off with a Tamiya 540 and a few cheap 6 cell battery pack I suppose this is why I race Nitro
Hate to say it, then they did something wrong. A tamiya motor is good for about 35 watts, and a 19 is good for 90. Basically triple the watts.

See videos in the above post. I'd say the car in the videos, as it sat, would have been a top 10 car in any class at that event. Everybody that test drove it said, "man, this thing is surprisingly fast".
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:55 AM   #716
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Pro10's over here died off because of the HUGE popularity of full size touring car racing. People started to put wide TC shells on their 4wd buggies and started a TC class. Manufacturers caught on to this and then produced a proper 'scale' version of a TC. I really don't think that people went away from them because they were too fast, it was just something new came along and took off. Now we are seeing that Pro10's are the new thing again, and they are having a come back!
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:53 AM   #717
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Just go out and get a car and race. Then you can make all the rules you want.Until you have a race it's just talk........
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:42 AM   #718
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I agree with you Bullfrog, run them first, then make the decisions! I raced with you over at TQ a couple of years ago, did n't I?
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:34 PM   #719
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We have just sent press releases launching the BMI DB10R. They will start shipping in 2-3 weeks



Check out more pics here:

http://www.redrc.net/2008/02/bmi-rac...-10/#more-8163
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:56 PM   #720
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Looks great! Any chance of seeing pics with the different lipo styles mounted (saddle & brick)?
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