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Old 02-24-2008, 06:28 AM   #691
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yeah we do. I am going next weekend and im gonna throw my 4.5 in the pro 10 and 1/12th.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:37 AM   #692
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I've said this before....If you want to bring new blood into pro10 class, you need to take advantage of the new ROAR rules reguarding lipo being accepted now. If you tag your chassis with the wording "new", and "lipo optimized chassis for todays batts", this class will flurish, period.
As a TC sedan racer, and former 1/12 owner, this talk of 4 cell will push racers away, there is already a class for these dying cells (RIP) 1/12. I personally just unloaded my ol tech NiMh cells and will never buy another one again. Most racers here in the club level are already running lipo (S.FLA) and will not go back to NiMH cells, they will become obsolite within the next few years, even 1/12th will have to look at other power alternatives.
When I first found out about 1/10 pan making a come back, I thought hell ya! I can throw a 13.5 in and lipo and have some fun (thats just me). Lap-times aside who cares? We're not talking of removing mod sedan are we? or trying to compete in the same field at the same time, so why has lap times have to matter so much? Make a poll and ask what racers, and potential new owners what power plants would they prefer to run, and why. Get a concensious, go from there making rules up. I'd be willing to bet even more sedan racers will hop over if its standardized equipment they all can agree on.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:39 AM   #693
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Jason or Adrian,

I have been watching this thread a little bit, but not compulsively. I have seen pics of the cars, but what bodies are you running on these? Sedan 4 door bodies, or the 1/12 scale like areo wedge bodies?

Thanks.

Snowy
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:46 AM   #694
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Its not price that is killing the sedan class...its complexity. You just can't slap one together and expect it to be a-main ready. There is a steep learning curve for setting up a sedan and many racers never learn enough to really KNOW their car and how it really works.

Pro-10 cars are much more simple. There are far fewer adjustments and the chages you can make make common sense. They are easier to drive, they are easeir to work on, have far fewier pieces, etc.

All of this makes Pro-10 cars better for novices, regular sunday racers, and harcore racers.
So true! I used to run 1/10 off-road and on-road back in the late 80's. I worked for the LHS and built cars for people on the side. I loved putting together those 1/12 & 1/10 scale pans. When I started college and my career, I left r/c for a long time. I decided to check back in this last fall for the first time. I wanted to build a quick car to run in the street in front of my house and maybe a little bit of local action. My god, things have changed! These things are F1 cars in miniature now! Tire warmers? Are you serious?!
It used to be your motor tuning and battery matching/peaking made all the difference with the racing (besides skill, of course). Now it's that, plus shock/spring/suspension settings, belt tension, diff adjustments, yadda, yadda, yadda. I bought a TC, thinking I could start back down that road, and catch up with everything. I opened that box and saw tons of bags of intricate parts, build sheets, etc, and started at it. About an hour later, I packed up the box and put it in the closet. I don't want to spend that much time building, and then that much more time tuning a touring car, to be about as fast as the pan car I built and tuned in a couple hours back in the 80's. I wish I had saved my RC10L!
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:49 AM   #695
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I am fully aware of the demand for lipo. My car will fit the lipo cells no problem. It will also fit 4 cell. I think it is a good move to make them fit both 4 cell and lipo. 4 cell is popular now and lipo is probably the future. So i made it fit 7.4 volt lipo and went with the saddle pack for the performance aspect. I am not opposed to lipo. I am not arguing it either. I had alot of fun running lipo and a 13.5. I will also try the 10.5 on a bigger track. I will keep adding motor until i cant handle it just for fun.

My car will accept a stick pack lipo if you really want. I didnt make it the standard layout because you need to add alot of weight to one side to counterbalance the speedo. I had a harder time tuning the car also. With the saddle pack pushed together as a brick pack, I had a very large window of adjustment and i need absolutely no weight added to the car to balance it.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:51 AM   #696
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Jason or Adrian,

I have been watching this thread a little bit, but not compulsively. I have seen pics of the cars, but what bodies are you running on these? Sedan 4 door bodies, or the 1/12 scale like areo wedge bodies?

Thanks.

Snowy
I have been running the HPI corvette body. The body is a very good body for the class. It is very smooth feeling on the track without any sacrifice in steering. It is really nice to drive. I also want to try the 911 GT1 Porsche body.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:18 AM   #697
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The last time Pro-10 was raced at the Worlds was at Yatabe Arena Japan in 2000. The cars were running Sanyo RC2000 NiCd's, with 8 turn mods and were going over 60mph on the straight. There were a few small bumps that caused blow overs. One car flew over over a 4 foot fence and missed removing Masami Hirosaka's head by a few inches. After this race IFMAR had a meeting and determined it was too dangerous to continue racing Pro-10 and it was never run again.

At The 2000 ROAR Carpet Nats at Minnreg in FL, Jeff Brown tapped the pipe on the back straight in Mod Pro-10 flew about 20' and hit the wall at the end of the back straight about 5" off the ground. After that a meeting was called and the drivers all agreed that racing these cars was too dangerous and Josh Cyrul was crowned the last Pro-10 Nats Champ after one round of qualifying.

I racers 1/10th pan cars from 1989 until the classed died in 2001. I was there from the start to the finish of the class. The guys that say 6 cell is not that fast are not doing something right. 13.5, 6 cell or Lipo should be a lot faster than Sedan mod when geared to the max temps conditions allow. The last time I raced 6 cell 27T, 235mm I was 2/10ths faster than sedan mod on a 100x50 carpet track.

Jason and I were testing the DB10R for the last 2 weeks. We were running 5.5 4 cell at a 40mm roll out. I think we were still under geared. With 5.5's on 4 cell were were faster than most mod sedans lap times.

Last weekend we ran Novak 10.5's on 4 cell at 68mm roll out (no I am not kidding and I did check my math...twice) . Even with that roll out we could spin the tires (Pink Jaco's with Paragon and suntan lotion) coming out of corners and were we about the same speed as the mod sedans.
RC can be dangerous! If 1/10 pan car got banned because of a couple of incidents why is 1/8 off-road still around? Getting hit in the elbows knees shoulders neck chest and head are a every weekend occurence at our track! And Truggies are a whole.....whole.....different story! Who Banned 1/10 pan car anyway? Imagine getting hit in the head with a 90mph 1/8 on-roader....There is some risk in anything that is fun! Better put GTP bodies on these cars so they don't become Airplanes!
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:41 AM   #698
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RC can be dangerous! If 1/10 pan car got banned because of a couple of incidents why is 1/8 off-road still around? Getting hit in the elbows knees shoulders neck chest and head are a every weekend occurence at our track! And Truggies are a whole.....whole.....different story! Who Banned 1/10 pan car anyway? Imagine getting hit in the head with a 90mph 1/8 on-roader....There is some risk in anything that is fun! Better put GTP bodies on these cars so they don't become Airplanes!
1/8 racers are a very small elite community. They need large very wide lane tracks and the tracks that run 1/8th regularly have special barriers and safety run off zones so people don't get hurt. There are no where near as many places to run 1/8th cars as there are places to run sedans and 1/12th cars.

1/8th cars a heavy and they have more suspension travel than pan cars so they dont blow over.

FYI, 1/8th cars never get over ~65mph on the biggest Euro tracks. You can't put enough gear on most 1/8th cars to even hit 90mph.

Pro-10 has killed off by the racers that ran it they decided it was too fast to race. I talked to Josh Cyrul about this and he said the cars were so fast you had to drive like there was no one else on the track. If some one was in front of you there was no time to think about altering your lines or setting up for a pass. If you were faster or if they made a mistake you had no choice but to drive right through them.

In order for Pro-10 to be sucessful and make a comeback it has to be able to run everywhere sedans and 1/12th cars run. That means they need to be driveable on a 60x40 carpet tracks with 4' lanes in the mid west and 150x75 asphalt tracks with 10' lanes in the west and south east.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #699
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I still don't understand why people are trying to kill off pro10's BEFORE they are back racing as a class in its own right. Pro10's were raced because they were really fast, that was the point of them. I just don't get people on here saying they must be run with a Lipo, or 4 cells or what ever before they've taken off, let's just get them back in the mix before the rulebook starts killing the class off! I personally think that 6 cell, brushed or brushless because certainly over here, that's what most people have at the moment. I also think they need to be the same width as before (wide) so that it's basically the same class as back in the day, but with modern equipment.
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #700
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All on-road RC has become a drive right thru'em class! Look at 1/12th modified, not a whole lot of time for bs there! If there is a pile up, your probably gonna hit'em! I like classes that rule out horsepower and you have to drive'em! I just know that, I won't bother with 4-cell, our Local club tried 4-cell 19t 1/10 pan car and it was the slowest most pathetic class I have ever seen to this day! $50.00 4 cells "8 of them" and $60.00 19turn Motors and it could'nt get out of it's own way. You would of been better off with a Tamiya 540 and a few cheap 6 cell battery pack I suppose this is why I race Nitro
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:07 PM   #701
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holy crap 60 mph with 2000 nicd?! thats outrageous! i would buy on, stick a 9 cell maxamps pack, and a 6 turn, and turn up high speed runs! lol.
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:16 PM   #702
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After watching this thread for a while I'll simply state that for Pro10 I do not see a problem with sticking with 6 cells and/or LiPo if that is what will help. Thing is though that what I am working with another guy on isnt a replacement for Pro10 necessarily (because again I still believe very strongly that the 235mm pan cars are the backbone of 10th pan car), but as a possible secondary option for people that do not have as prevalent a following of the wider cars or a big enough track to be able to run the wider cars and not have it turn into a high speed parade with little passing. What I think would be great would be to watch these grow much like the VTA class has grown over the last few months and hopefully have something for them in the future (like 2009 or something)
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:37 PM   #703
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The key is to start running the cars,see what works for you and your local track, and enjoy them. You can run whatever you like. That is what makes this a hobby. If it does become a national level class,rules will be made and we will need to follow them. At this point there are too many options and limited number of people running the cars. Lets start out as a run what ya brung class and let the class form itself. It will happen.
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:00 PM   #704
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At least the DB10R is LiPO brick ready, but I really doubt I would run LiPO's in it. A123 is releasing a 6.6V brick pack the same size as all the other packs, so I may give that a try when I am ready to dismiss 4-Cell.
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:14 PM   #705
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That is something that interests me as well.
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