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Old 02-09-2008, 12:42 PM   #451
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At your next race meeting talk to Craig Dresher or David Spashett and ask them what they though of racing Pro-10 and if 4 cell or 6 cell would better if the class came back.

I know 100% of the US pros I have spoken to think 4 cell would make for better racing.
Adrian I just know what I'd prefer and why, this may end up a European and USA 'difference', in that we agree to differ.. it has to be better to accommodate everyone and in so doing make Pro10 the class people want to race in. I'd guess it's what the average racers prefer not what the US or any other pros think would be better.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:48 PM   #452
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The car will be available hopefully by the end of the month. I need to run off all the parts and get them anodized. There are a couple of aluminum parts that are different from the 12R that is what i need to have anodized. I will start taking pre orders this week.
Thanks Jason for the info I will be looking for that order tab buddy!!!
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:59 PM   #453
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Adrian I just know what I'd prefer and why, this may end up a European and USA 'difference', in that we agree to differ.. it has to be better to accommodate everyone and in so doing make Pro10 the class people want to race in. I'd guess it's what the average racers prefer not what the US or any other pros think would be better.
I understand. I will race happily with 4 cell or Lipo. Its just that Lipo/6 cell is a lot riskier for the health of the class because that was part of the same formula that failed last time.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:25 PM   #454
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Pro10 back in the day was raced with 6 cells...its never been 4 cell, so why make the changes now, when its NOT NEEDED at all?

2 yrs ago in Europe, Mathjis (Pro10 Holland) started a Pro10 class in Europe again, and have been runing it with 6 cells as its always been. Its been picking up in Europe and they have their own organized races going on with usually more than 30 entries per race...its working great, and dont see the need to be changing it. Its not needed at all...

Also, its been shown already a page or two ago, that using Lipo is 50% cheaper than 4 cell nimh over a years season of racing, so all the arguments favoring 4 cell because its supposedly cheaper can go down the toilet, cause in the end its more expensive and harder to maintain than the simpler Lipo packs.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:48 PM   #455
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Lets just stop this...there is no point. People will run what they want to run and the cream will rise to the top. This will not get settled here. It will get settled at club races all over the world this summer
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Old 02-09-2008, 06:19 PM   #456
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Lets just stop this...there is no point. People will run what they want to run and the cream will rise to the top. This will not get settled here. It will get settled at club races all over the world this summer
I think you're right....those 1/12 scalers and oval guys will probably run 4 cell, while the TC's guys and newbies will go for .74v lipo since its much cheaper to run and much easier to maintain...that's why its the right thing to keep chassis with 6 cell/lipo configurations, like BMI and CRC have done, it will keep everyone happy
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Old 02-09-2008, 09:22 PM   #457
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Im gonna run whatever is available. The choices are 4 cell or lipo. 6 cell just isnt the way. If we do go 7.4 i want to do it with lipo. I feel that 6 cell just isnt going to be ideal. Its too heavy especially when some of the cars have the cells down the center. You need to add weight to balnce them to make them handle properly and this will defeat the purpose of going this route. My car will not be cells down the center but it will take 7.4 volt lipo. I did this for balance purposes. With lipo looking to be the future of the hobby, i feel we need to put more emphasis on this technology.
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Old 02-09-2008, 09:25 PM   #458
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I also feel that running 7.4 volt lipo is the way to go being that the only changes that may be necesary to go from TC to pro10 is just putting in a slower motor. The packs will carry over from any class.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:48 AM   #459
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I also feel that running 7.4 volt lipo is the way to go being that the only changes that may be necesary to go from TC to pro10 is just putting in a slower motor. The packs will carry over from any class.
Couldnt agree w/ you more Jason...running 4 cell doesnt make sense at all...its a step backwards, considering how its twice as expensive to run and maintain than the much simpler Lipo packs, and they are as light weight as 4 cell nimh packs, so no weight or balancing issues vs 4 cell nimh. Besides, 6 cell is the way 1/10 pan cars have always been run, and its the way its been done in Europe for the past 2 yrs, in the pro10 class they've started to run again...I think that we should at least take that into consideration and try to work with them so that we have joint efforts with them also, and if we use the ROAR pro10 rules already in place, they are set with 6 cell, and now that Lipo is legal for racing with ROAR, we'll just have to add them to pro10 rule book or just accept it....but to try and regress to 4 cell nimh I think its ridiculous...never been done and should be kept for 1/12 and oval if that's what they like...
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:52 AM   #460
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Are the new crop of these Pro 10 cars coming out mostly 200mm or 235mm wide cars? Or are they a combination of both? Will the older 235mm pan cars be allowed to run with them id they are 200mm cars?

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Old 02-10-2008, 08:09 AM   #461
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Are the new crop of these Pro 10 cars coming out mostly 200mm or 235mm wide cars? Or are they a combination of both? Will the older 235mm pan cars be allowed to run with them id they are 200mm cars?

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The CRC car will be 200mm, with a 235mm conversion.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:18 AM   #462
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I beleive the only 235 only car currently is the new Corally. The rest are 200mm cars with a few having the option to change the width.

In looking at getting racers into this class, you could get 1/12 scale racers to play outside (off the carpet) with 4 cells and you can get touring racers with the 6 cell / lipo. To that end, why not allow 200mm touring car bodies?

4 cell GT bodies, 200mm, stock motor or 17.5 brushless
6 cell / lipo Touring car bodies, 200mm, Motor?
6 cell / lipo GTP bodies, 235mm, open motor or limit to 10.5 / 19 turn

This last class is what we have run in Colorado for the past 2-3 years.

So, I'd run the 4cell GT class and the open 235 class. Add a Vintage Trans-Am and I'd be set for a fun summer of racing.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:06 AM   #463
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Ive been in the single class (and 4 cell) camp for most of this discussion. I will say this. With ROAR legalizing LiPo I would not see a problem with LiPo being the standard for a class as long as we have a standard set for the class. Will everyone be happy? No...there is a saying "you can please some of the people some of the time, some of the people ALL the time, ALL the people some of the time, but not ALL the people ALL the time." using 4 cell would allow for people to try it that run oval and 12th scale. Using 6 cell would adhere to the already written rules, and bring in racers from the TC ranks, but the guys that run largely 12th scale and oval would not be happy. Using LiPo would be better for those that think the class needs to be mindful of the technology (which has been legalized by ROAR).

As for running the 200s and 235s together, I know that they did that at the ROAR Nationals the last time they ran that class (2004) and from my observation I believe they did it that way in FL (one of the boys down there could verify that pretty readily Im sure). I do not think that we should not forget the 235s because those cars really are the cars that were the backbone of 10th scale pan car racing (and helped bring about 200mm cars and later oval). I know that tracks will want to make their own decisions regarding rules but having a spec in place for the potential of running a "national-type" race much like they are doing for the Vintage Trans-Am is a definite key. That being said, I think that having a single 200mm class and a single 235mm class would be an idea worth considering. If tracks want to run them together, they should be able to.

Bearing all that has been said in mind I think the specs could go this way



GT1

200mm chassis
Foam tires
GT1 bodies only (Corvette, Mustang, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Dodge Viper, etc)
21.5 Brushless/27T Brushed (I think those are fairly equivalent motor specs)
7.4v LiPo/4 Cell NiMH

When I thought of this I wanted to come up with something that could still afford challenge to the existing racers (and bring racers over from 12th scale and oval), but yet be something that someone could easily get into. I did a little quick calculating and are there 4.9v LiPo packs on the market right now?


GTP
235mm chassis
Foam tires
GTP Bodies (P35, Toyota GT1, Peugeot 905, etc)
13.5 Brushless/19T Brushed (Again I think those are fairly equivalent motor specs)
7.4v LiPo/6 Cell NiMH (4600 mAh)


As I said before, 235mm cars really are the cars that were the backbone of 10th scale pan car racing and they cannot be forgotten. There are still 235mm cars to be found (I know a lot of them are on eBay nowadays) and so I think it would be good to have something for them to run as well if the opportunity is there and enough 235mm cars showed up at a given track.


If a track wants to run either/or, that can be done. If a track wants to run them together, Im sure rules could still be adapted to allow for that. If there is enough interest to run the two separately, that can be done as well.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:22 AM   #464
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Trackdesigner - I can agree with just two classes. But 7.4 lipo and 4cell in GT. Is that what you wanted, or should it all be 7.4 lipo / 6 cell with just a change of motor?

If your going to follow ROAR, then it would be 17.5 vs 27t and 13.5 vs 19 turn. I don't agree with these but if they are the rules lets follow them until they change.
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:21 AM   #465
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In looking at getting racers into this class, you could get 1/12 scale racers to play outside (off the carpet) with 4 cells and you can get touring racers with the 6 cell / lipo
grenade10, you think that 1/12 should play off the carpet? i think that 4WD should go off on asphalt, and pro10 should do carpet as well. Why the hell would you stop racing 1/12 carpet, thats on of the original carpet classes. 4 cell is just not as much fun as 6 cell outdoors, on asphalt especially.
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