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Old 02-09-2008, 07:29 AM   #436
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Maybe itīs a split between USA and Europe then. For Germany there are still the 235mm wide and 6 cells rules for Pro10, only change for this year was 2cell Lipos are allowed now also. I know there are ideas of a second (unofficial) class with 200mm wide and 19T brushed/9.5T BL motorlimit. But for sure there will be no 4 cell racing. Pro10 usually is run outdoor only on big tracks here so 4cell makes no sense. I think for the drivers from the Netherlands itīs the same, maybe beside the Lipos.

So if some manufactures are limiting their chassis to 4 cells only they wonīt be selling any cars to Europe. The new CRC car is perfect in this direction, so you could run whatever battery you want/ the rules allow. Maybe they did think a little more than others.
We (the car manufacturers) have spoken about this and we most of us are making the cars fit both 6 cell/lipo and 4 cell even though we unanimously believe 4 cell is the best way to go.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:45 AM   #437
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I find it funny that all you guys want to run Lipo when NONE of you have the nerve to run mod sedan. Guess what...a 17.5 and a lipo pack in any of these cars will go FASTER than a Mod 6 cell sedan.
I ran novak 5.5 and lipo quite a lot

Was too fast for a Medium sized track but fine at Brookland which is large. I raced against 1/10th ic once and they had the edge on the straight.

I have also race my switchblade with 4 cell and novak 4.5 at west london which is a medium size. Very little throttle control was require. Could mash the throttle out of all but the slowest corners. My cells arn't the best and I could have used a lower wind if I'd access to one. But my cell were already coming off toasted.

No offence Adrian but you are missing the point I have been making all along. Just because you run 7.4v lipo doesn't mean you would have unlimited power. There are even 21.5t motors and trust me a pro10 would be plenty slow enough with one of them .

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There was no path to get guys started at a speed they could handle. This was one of the major reasons the class died.
No matter what power they are running a pro10 is not the best choice for a beginner. That would be a tamiya tt01. We have great tt01 class at a local circuit and I even race in it sometimes and it's great fun. You get time to check out where everyone else is on the track as your car is going down the straight .

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You guys are knocking something I doubt most of you have actually tried.
I think I am the only one here who has tried it .
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:06 AM   #438
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Please don't mistake my questions and comments for "bitching". I raced a LOT of 1/10 pan in the late '80's-early '90's (still have my 10L and Predator Lynx II) and if I had to choose my favorite all-time class that would be it.

I think I indicated 21.5/2s LiPo would probably be faster than stock TC...I've no illusion re: the speed and agree that is likely STILL too fast. But, if you'll note, I asked questions rather than make blanket statements. Questions that COULD, probably, be answered by folks who've run these cars more recently than I if they weren't all caught up in "man it's boring to have people say...".

IS the driving experience of 4-cell Pro10 in a 200mm format enough different from 1/12? I don't see how it could be, but I've never driven a 200mm car.

Are we designing a class that to attract TC racers who are being priced out of the game OR are we designing a class that is easy to transition in to and out of 1/12? I've heard both described as rationale, and at this point I don't believe the two aims are mutually exclusive, but I believe I made a reasonable case (TC drivers making mass exodus to LiPo now) for why that window won't be open for long...and probably be closed long before this class really gets shaking.

As far as "being concerned about 1/12" as we begin to lose sources for NiMH...yeah several of us are. As I said I don't think it will be tomorrow, or even the next year or two, but I've had discussions with several "git 'er done" type 1/12 people who agree that it would be better if we (1/12 racers) get out front and manage the change rather than having decisions made for us by lack of supply and/or people (like the ROAR board, well intentioned as they may be) making decisions for 1/12 who don't actively race it.
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:08 AM   #439
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I think some of the things the europeans fail to realize is the size of some of the tracks here in the USA. I understand they have alot of large 1/8 scale tracks there. That would be perfect for 6cell/lipo. But here in the USA, it's kinda different. There are some large tracks. But the majority are small tracks. 6cell would definitely be over kill on many of our tracks. So one thing to consider is track size.

So Jason... am I on the preorder list for the DB10R??? haha... where's the pics!!! I wanna see!!!
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Old 02-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #440
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What oval class did you run? Did you know that the current 4 cell stock 1/10th oval cars are going faster than the last generation of 6 cell stock oval cars did? They are faster but still easier to drive then the 6 cell cars. You will not find a oval racer than want to go back to 6 cell.
Stock is going faster then 19t??????? Then people wonder why RC is dead Must be some S-E-R-I-U-O-S brewing going on??????? The more cells/voltage people have to work with the less Battery quality matters.

2 Classes for 1/10th pan

Spec=Whatever club specifies Tamiya Closed endbell and 6 Cells 4200 limit. This will be Fast and Cheap.

Open=Make it go as fast as you can!

I like GTP bodies because they handle........and wellllllll look best!
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Old 02-09-2008, 09:33 AM   #441
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The DB10R is now complete. I will be taking pics today and i will try to get them up today also. It will be tight being that i am throwing a 60th birthday party for my father tonight and racing tommorow. At the latest the pics will be up on here tommorow.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:20 AM   #442
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Hi Jason when will the pre-orders start for this car I would like to get one of the first cars if possiable and I would also like to get your DB12R at the same time.

And could one give a little more detail on the bodies that will be coming out for this class of car



Thanks

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Old 02-09-2008, 10:26 AM   #443
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Racing with old school motors is not going to make it around here. The tracks in Europe - never raced there.Again what ya'll do in Europe is ya'll decision. Over here in our Florida series it's 4 cell-13.5. We run for 5 minute qualifiers and 8 minute mains with no problems.I'll run it again on March 8-9. If there's a problem I'll post it.I only have one 4 cell 4600 pack by the way.I'm waiting until the lipos will fit in my car.With the amount of manufacturers out there making or about to make these cars the lipos will be out shortly.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:42 AM   #444
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6 cells and cheap motors are faster then 4 cell with expensive motors. I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with making RC slow and expensive????? 4 cell is for 12 Scale.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:58 AM   #445
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6 cells and cheap motors are faster then 4 cell with expensive motors. I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with making RC slow and expensive????? 4 cell is for 12 Scale.
In case you have been under a rock for the last year all BL motors cost the same so there are no cheap or expensive motors anymore.

A team level 4 cell pack costs 1/2 the price of a Lipo pack.

4 cell is not slow. You obviously have not raced 1/12th or you would never say anything like that. If you have been racing 4 cell then you have been doing it wrong.

I ran 4 cell with a 5.5 in my Pro-10 car against a better driver than me running a 4.5 sedan with a lipo pack and I lapped him 3 times in 5 min. This was with an early prototype that was pushing bad and with the wrong tires.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:12 AM   #446
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In case you have been under a rock for the last year all BL motors cost the same so there are no cheap or expensive motors anymore.

A team level 4 cell pack costs 1/2 the price of a Lipo pack.

4 cell is not slow. You obviously have not raced 1/12th or you would never say anything like that. If you have been racing 4 cell then you have been doing it wrong.

I ran 4 cell with a 5.5 in my Pro-10 car against a better driver than me running a 4.5 sedan with a lipo pack and I lapped him 3 times in 5 min. This was with an early prototype that was pushing bad and with the wrong tires.
i agree
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:30 AM   #447
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I raced Pro10 the whole time it was mainstream back in the late 80's right through to the late 90's, back then it was THE onroad class before the arrival of TC. Looks like times are changing and TC popularity could be on the wane.. the 'racing climate' is in favour of Pro10 and 1/10 pan cars once again, good news indeed!

If I had to choose my all-time favourite class it would be Pro10. Racing TC and 1/12 etc just doesn't do it for me.. I love Pro10. I love the feel of the cars and the amazing speed, with that incredible acceleration plus the pure adrenalin rush driving sensation and kick from having the ultimate performance driving on 'the edge' but with precise handling that's totally under control.. as a class Pro10 simply can't be beaten in my experience!!

In the 'new era' if there's a split between Europe and the USA with cells I don't see that it necessarily has to be a problem, it's easy enough to change a chassis if required or even dare I mention, make your own as we used to do.. design and modify a car/chassis to your own specs (within the rules) and why not have 4 cell and/or mild wind slower motors for beginners if it helps and full blown 'fast spec' cars for the experienced drivers? As has been said already Pro10 is probably not the best choice for new drivers but there's no reason it has to be too difficult for them, 'tame' motors can help make the cars much easier to drive with less speed and acceleration for inexperienced drivers as well as for racing on tighter and restricted small size tracks.

If Pro10 was 4 cell in the UK I wouldn't bother, 5 cell no thanks, but Pro10 with BL and LiPos.. now you're talking where's my old Pro10 gear I'll be coming back racing again in THE premier onroad class.. that's the No.1 Pro10!!!
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:50 AM   #448
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I raced Pro10 the whole time it was mainstream back in the late 80's right through to the late 90's, back then it was THE onroad class before the arrival of TC. Looks like times are changing and TC popularity could be on the wane.. the 'racing climate' is in favour of Pro10 and 1/10 pan cars once again, good news indeed!

If I had to choose my all-time favourite class it would be Pro10. Racing TC and 1/12 etc just doesn't do it for me.. I love Pro10. I love the feel of the cars and the amazing speed, with that incredible acceleration plus the pure adrenalin rush driving sensation and kick from having the ultimate performance driving on 'the edge' but with precise handling that's totally under control.. as a class Pro10 simply can't be beaten in my experience!!

In the 'new era' if there's a split between Europe and the USA with cells I don't see that it necessarily has to be a problem, it's easy enough to change a chassis if required or even dare I mention, make your own as we used to do.. design and modify a car/chassis to your own specs (within the rules) and why not have 4 cell and/or mild wind slower motors for beginners if it helps and full blown 'fast spec' cars for the experienced drivers? As has been said already Pro10 is probably not the best choice for new drivers but there's no reason it has to be too difficult for them, 'tame' motors can help make the cars much easier to drive with less speed and acceleration for inexperienced drivers as well as for racing on tighter and restricted small size tracks.

If Pro10 was 4 cell in the UK I wouldn't bother, 5 cell no thanks, but Pro10 with BL and LiPos.. now you're talking where's my old Pro10 gear I'll be coming back racing again in THE premier onroad class.. that's the No.1 Pro10!!!
At your next race meeting talk to Craig Dresher or David Spashett and ask them what they though of racing Pro-10 and if 4 cell or 6 cell would better if the class came back.

I know 100% of the US pros I have spoken to think 4 cell would make for better racing.
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:01 PM   #449
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At your next race meeting talk to Craig Dresher or David Spashett and ask them what they though of racing Pro-10 and if 4 cell or 6 cell would better if the class came back.

I know 100% of the US pros I have spoken to think 4 cell would make for better racing.
again i agree
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #450
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Hi Jason when will the pre-orders start for this car I would like to get one of the first cars if possiable and I would also like to get your DB12R at the same time.

And could one give a little more detail on the bodies that will be coming out for this class of car



Thanks

C.C.
The car will be available hopefully by the end of the month. I need to run off all the parts and get them anodized. There are a couple of aluminum parts that are different from the 12R that is what i need to have anodized. I will start taking pre orders this week.
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