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Old 02-05-2008, 04:52 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Just spoke with my buddy Hector Garcia(el Campion) about this: after a good discussion he suggests the following:

MOD: 10.5BL and 13.5BL with 7.4V Lipo...the 10.5BL can be the hotter motor, for more open larger tracks, and the 13.5 for med or smaller tracks, like in TC's where 3.5 thru 5.5 are used in mod classes depending on tracks.

Intermediate: 17.5BL and 7.4v lipo

Stock/novice: 21.5BL motor with 7.4v Lipo...
I like it

If I get a DB10R, or whatever I will try out lipo with a 10.5..... I dont have to go full throttle Or I can turn the EPA down
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:12 PM   #362
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hi Nick, the easiest thing for us to do is have 5 race packs and 1 practice pack. You don't have to worry about cells charged in time for your heat unless you put in the wrong (flat) pack and realize 2 laps into your heat.....
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:14 PM   #363
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I like it

If I get a DB10R, or whatever I will try out lipo with a 10.5..... I dont have to go full throttle Or I can turn the EPA down
Trust me bro...I've run a few months ago my CRC narrow and wide pan cars with 10.5 and 7.4v, and its not ballistic at all...a good TC w/ mod 3.5BL will be faster down the straight...its more like a 6.5-5.5BL down the straght, which is easily controlable and very easy to drive if you're used to 1/12 scale and mod TCs or nitro. Its in the corners were thse cars are amazing...
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:29 PM   #364
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Your average Lipo battery pack is capable of running 100 cycles at top performance before it begins it's decline into the practice pack category. Running once a week on 2 NIMH packs for one practice run, 2 qualifiers and a main would equate to 2 cycles per week. We are looking at around 40 cycles in a 5 month period of time. Running 1 Lipo pack at that same race night you would be putting 4 cycles on that one battery every single week.

Now for the math, lets break it down on cost per week:

2 NIMH packs, 40 cycle lifespan at a cost of $90.00 - 20 weeks of racing at a cost of $4.50 per week.

1 Lipo pack, 100 cycle lifespan at a cost of $120.00 - 25 weeks of racing at a cost of $4.00 per week.
Nick... good points, however:

Lipo: with one 4900 mah lipo like TrackPower, with 13.5 or 17.5BL motor on the 1/10 Pan car: you can run 26-27 minutes before you ned to re-charge.

that's 2 eight minute qual runs, and 10 minute main, on one pack. You can do 4 qualifiers and 2 mains on 2 charges...so your math needs to be re-adjusted. Lipo now would be almost 50% cheaper, acording to your numbers, so, 2 cycles per week, means that your Lipo will last a year, before it begins to drop toa practice pack type performance, for a cheap pack!
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:31 PM   #365
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Trust me bro...I've run a few months ago my CRC narrow and wide pan cars with 10.5 and 7.4v, and its not ballistic at all...a good TC w/ mod 3.5BL will be faster down the straight...its more like a 6.5-5.5BL down the straght, which is easily controlable and very easy to drive if you're used to 1/12 scale and mod TCs or nitro. Its in the corners were thse cars are amazing...

Haha no I have never ran TC MOD..... I have a MOD motor to try out in practice in a few weeks though.... Should be interesting... MOD for our track on 5 cell is a 4.5, so I dont have a huge track..... I have driven many gas cars though

Sounds real fun! I cant wait till the DB10R comes out
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:44 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Nick... good points, however:

Lipo: with one 4900 mah lipo like TrackPower, with 13.5 or 17.5BL motor on the 1/10 Pan car: you can run 26-27 minutes before you ned to re-charge.

that's 2 eight minute qual runs, and 10 minute main, on one pack. You can do 4 qualifiers and 2 mains on 2 charges...so your math needs to be re-adjusted. Lipo now would be almost 50% cheaper, acording to your numbers, so, 2 cycles per week, means that your Lipo will last a year, before it begins to drop toa practice pack type performance, for a cheap pack!
You too have made an interesting point. While you might be able to get a few qualifiers out of the pack before you need to recharge it we all know you will go just a little slower each time out. That's fine for a bash around and have a good time class but we are looking at Pro10 as a true racing class. If you choose to save the pack and make it last a year it's going to cost you in lap times. The guy who comes to the track with $350-$400 in Lipo packs and is running at the top of the discharge curve every time out is going to be faster.

There's always a trade off.

Nick
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #367
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The uberfastness of the Tech has generated not one but two posts.

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Old 02-05-2008, 06:12 PM   #368
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You too have made an interesting point. While you might be able to get a few qualifiers out of the pack before you need to recharge it we all know you will go just a little slower each time out. That's fine for a bash around and have a good time class but we are looking at Pro10 as a true racing class. If you choose to save the pack and make it last a year it's going to cost you in lap times. The guy who comes to the track with $350-$400 in Lipo packs and is running at the top of the discharge curve every time out is going to be faster.

There's always a trade off.

Nick
Interesting...however, Lipos dont get slower every minute like nimhs do. Good Lipo packs will hold their punch through out the entire run and drop off close to the 6.0v cutoff...that's when you can actually feel the pack slow down and its time to recharge...after 25+ of great racing with 17.5 or 13.5 BL on pan cars.

Also, the 2 packs nimh which last 45 cycles, as you pointed out works out to about 4-5 months, according to your projection. Which means 1/2 a year...what about the other half of the year? So for a year you'll need to buy 4 packs, which is another $90-100 to ge the performance of one good lipo pack, which you can easily run 2 cycles per week and will last you a year when it will be rought at around 100 cycles already.

so if you do the numbers based on year's time, Lipo is almost 75% cheaper in the long run.

To make it even more intersting, let's look at the numbers based on 2 years, like this:

Nimh for 2 yrs= 4 packs per year, or 8 packs for 2 [email protected]$45 ea. = $360

Lipo for 2 yrs= use two trackpower 4800 packs @ $130 each = $260

If you use the Lipos, in a 3-2 format...1 full charge for 3 quals on one pack, and then use the other pack for 2 mains, then you can run each at about .75 cycles per week...which means you will be able to use these 2 lipo packs for over almost 26-27 months by the time you get to 100 cycles

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Old 02-05-2008, 06:21 PM   #369
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hi Nick, the easiest thing for us to do is have 5 race packs and 1 practice pack. You don't have to worry about cells charged in time for your heat unless you put in the wrong (flat) pack and realize 2 laps into your heat.....
Now the nimh will get even more expensive- six 4 cell packs @ $45 each= $270, every year, with really good care...plus thow in cell conditioner, discharger, etc...if you go 2 yrs, that's 12 [email protected]$45= $540 for nimh...when with just 2 good Lipo packs you can run with for 2 yrs before they reach their 100 Cycle peak performance time, all for just $130 each, which is : $260 every 2 yrs...
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:31 PM   #370
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Ok so we have a pretty solid consensus that any class would involve GT bodies. We cold have an unending debate about different power combinations (and probably will for a while). I was talking on IM with somebody last night and they brought up something that I dont think has been completely addressed...the issue of tires. I know that the F103GT can run rubber tires, but pan cars at their very nature run foam tires. This is a sort of expense that I dont think many people will want to incur on a weekly or monthly basis. I know that there are cap tires out ther ebut thos egenerally are run on oval...what kind of tires should any sort of 10th pan class be looking at?
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #371
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i run a wide mod powered pro10 with lipo regularly and my $18 rear tires ( whites which are VERY soft) last seemingly forever... like 20+ runs... and my runs are full cycles, since i'm not racing, just running... so we're talking 20+ 8-10 minute runs...
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:16 PM   #372
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Ok so we have a pretty solid consensus that any class would involve GT bodies. We cold have an unending debate about different power combinations (and probably will for a while). I was talking on IM with somebody last night and they brought up something that I dont think has been completely addressed...the issue of tires. I know that the F103GT can run rubber tires, but pan cars at their very nature run foam tires. This is a sort of expense that I dont think many people will want to incur on a weekly or monthly basis. I know that there are cap tires out ther ebut thos egenerally are run on oval...what kind of tires should any sort of 10th pan class be looking at?
Foam. At 2" wide (rear tires), and the way that these cars normally drive, they will last a good long time. Rubber caps take too long to heat up to produce the traction needed for them to work, and rubber tires would need to be engineered for this car. These cars by their very nature are much lighter and would need a new formulation of rubber and foam insert and rims in order to get something that has any chance of working. We know that foam tires is a working combination. Let's not re-invent the wheel since it works so well.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:25 PM   #373
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Any way I can use a DNA 3 on a pro 10?

I know they have alot of front down force, and the pan cars have a ton of steering anyways.......

Is it worth doing, or just use another body?
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:45 PM   #374
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...Let's not re-invent the wheel since it works so well.
Thank you ladies and germs, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the waitress!
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:23 PM   #375
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i run a wide mod powered pro10 with lipo regularly and my $18 rear tires ( whites which are VERY soft) last seemingly forever... like 20+ runs... and my runs are full cycles, since i'm not racing, just running... so we're talking 20+ 8-10 minute runs...
Superior Hobbies in Florida sells them for abot $15 a pair for Jaco 1/10 oval tires...
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