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Old 02-05-2008, 12:21 AM   #331
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Um...if they're both 4200's and both charged at the same rate (say, 6 amps) they charge in pretty much exactly the same amount of time. Number of cells only affects voltage. SIZE of cells affects mah and, thus, charging time.
........... guess what my point was ..... it takes exactly the same amount of time for a 4 cell pack and a 6 cell pack to get a full charge.
With the 6 cell pack however you get the extra runtime.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:44 AM   #332
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:19 AM   #333
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What up Jason, see things are doing good for you guys. Great to see you involved with helping the proten class comeback. Look forward to rubbing fenders on the track.
Hey dude. Good to see you coming back to racing. I think this is going to be a great class. I decided to go super crazy exotic looking instead of the way i had my prototype. Price shouldnt jump more than 5 or 10 bucks but it will look like it did. I really feel this class will catch on for alot of clubs once they try them. We ran them at minnreg and they were really awesome.
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:30 AM   #334
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Since it was brought up- I've said it several times before . The Fla. series ran there first state race and in the vintage class there were two 200mm pan cars and one 235 (gtp body) running. The Purple Cuda (13.5 with 4 cell- 4600)and the Green and white Mustang(13.5 with 4 cell- 4200).Gosh and I've got no experience running pan cars?I can remember them being introduced to the world(1985) at the Winter-Nationals in Orlando by Bolink.Parma also introduced the 1/18th car that was a clear lexan chassis.Also going to the 1st 1/10th nationals in Tulsa, Okla( the same hotel as the Oral Roberts convention)!
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:08 AM   #335
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........... guess what my point was ..... it takes exactly the same amount of time for a 4 cell pack and a 6 cell pack to get a full charge.
With the 6 cell pack however you get the extra runtime.
4 cell and 6 cell packs are wired in series so the run time for both are the same. You just get more voltage with 6 cells.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:29 AM   #336
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4 cell and 6 cell packs are wired in series so the run time for both are the same. You just get more voltage with 6 cells.
Hey Adrian. I THINK his point is that to go the same "speed" you're calling on less from the 6-cell pack (less throttle) than the 4-cell. You and I know this ain't how it would work "at the track" though. Firstly, you wouldn't go the same speed, you'd go faster, thus using energy at the same (or close to the same if traction-limited") rate. The additional weight being carried around (two 4200 cells is right at 5 ounces...a significant percent of a pan car's weight) will require more energy be expended each time the car is positively accelerated. The additional heat generated by the higher voltage also affects efficiencies within the system. Etc.

The argument, though well-intentioned (I think), appears fundamentally flawed to me though I stand ready for correction as appropriate.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:33 AM   #337
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This definatly looks like a cool class. I just recently came back into the hobby after being out for about a year and a half. Im currently racing 4 cell 12th scale and its a blast. So naturally a tenth scale pan looks like a very attractive alternative to running 10th scale sedan onces it gets warm out.

But this battery thing is definatly a sticking point for me. I personally would like to get away from running Nimhs. I dont want to run Lipos to go stupid fast, I just want to get out of the battery maintainece dance. So what BL motors would make this managable (slow enough) at 7.4 volts?

So aside from the speed what are the negatives of running a 7.4 lipo in this class?
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:00 AM   #338
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This definatly looks like a cool class. I just recently came back into the hobby after being out for about a year and a half. Im currently racing 4 cell 12th scale and its a blast. So naturally a tenth scale pan looks like a very attractive alternative to running 10th scale sedan onces it gets warm out.

But this battery thing is definatly a sticking point for me. I personally would like to get away from running Nimhs. I dont want to run Lipos to go stupid fast, I just want to get out of the battery maintainece dance. So what BL motors would make this managable (slow enough) at 7.4 volts?

So aside from the speed what are the negatives of running a 7.4 lipo in this class?
if you want to go slow...use 17.5BL motor...slower, use 21.5BL
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:13 AM   #339
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Hey Adrian. I THINK his point is that to go the same "speed" you're calling on less from the 6-cell pack (less throttle) than the 4-cell. You and I know this ain't how it would work "at the track" though. Firstly, you wouldn't go the same speed, you'd go faster, thus using energy at the same (or close to the same if traction-limited") rate. The additional weight being carried around (two 4200 cells is right at 5 ounces...a significant percent of a pan car's weight) will require more energy be expended each time the car is positively accelerated. The additional heat generated by the higher voltage also affects efficiencies within the system. Etc.

The argument, though well-intentioned (I think), appears fundamentally flawed to me though I stand ready for correction as appropriate.
Uh...I just though he didn't understand that the capacity was the same.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:22 AM   #340
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6 cells will actually give less run time
More Voltage = more current = less run time
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:11 AM   #341
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Had a little discussion awhile ago with a good friend. He was telling me want I already suspected. Yes what goes around comes around and the big push is 1/10th pan cars- With what I was told. It really makes alot of common sense I've seen the same thing happening when I first started racing many years ago.Cost of a kit goes up less racers.With the coming of the 1/10th pan cars it's cheaper for the general everyday racer.Then we get our racers out of this new group of racers.Then in about 10 years the cycle will change again. To all the pan cars manufacturers present and in the near future thank you helping our Hobby grow again and keeping the overall maintance reasonable.Now I don't have to be a mechanical genius to set up my car - I just have to remember what I forgot.Luckly I've have notes from the old days.
Fun days are here a again.........................................
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:20 AM   #342
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Hey Adrian. I THINK his point is that to go the same "speed" you're calling on less from the 6-cell pack (less throttle) than the 4-cell. You and I know this ain't how it would work "at the track" though. Firstly, you wouldn't go the same speed, you'd go faster, thus using energy at the same (or close to the same if traction-limited") rate. The additional weight being carried around (two 4200 cells is right at 5 ounces...a significant percent of a pan car's weight) will require more energy be expended each time the car is positively accelerated. The additional heat generated by the higher voltage also affects efficiencies within the system. Etc.

The argument, though well-intentioned (I think), appears fundamentally flawed to me though I stand ready for correction as appropriate.
Ever think about that you can actually gear a car down?????
Make the cars run the same Top end speed and lets see which car drives the longest....
But hey, what do I know.... I'm a guy with just a hundred posts or something. That must mean my knowledge of RC is pretty low...
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:29 AM   #343
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Ever think about that you can actually gear a car down?????
Make the cars run the same Top end speed and lets see which car drives the longest....
But hey, what do I know.... I'm a guy with just a hundred posts or something. That must mean my knowledge of RC is pretty low...
I like the idea, but how do you propose making all the cars run the same top speed? Even with identical motors, batteries, gearing, tires, etc. some will be faster than others. If you specify a certain gearing, then you have to take into account running foam tires and not all of them are going to be the same diameter. And, people running different motors that reach different RPM's.

I'm all for making the cars as equal as possible, but how can you make them run the same top end speed?
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:45 AM   #344
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6 cells will actually give less run time
More Voltage = more current = less run time
Not really, it's an energy thing. With a fixed resistance, the 6-cell pack would discharge faster. With a fixed load, the 6-cell would last longer.

The thought is that the 6-cell would be run on a higher resistance motor (more winds) so that the power output would be equivalent. The 6-cell would nominally have 30.24 Watt-hr where the 4-cell would have 20.16 Watt-hr.

For an equivalent load of 100 watts, the 6-cell would run 18 minutes and the 4-cell would run 12 minutes.

Last edited by ZipZap; 02-05-2008 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:00 PM   #345
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I think there needs to be some spec aspects to any 10th pan class either way. I suggested the 4 cell and 10.5/19T but whatever the accepted combination is, I think some sort of a spec aspect ought to be integrated. Im not saying that every single thing (right down to the top end speed) needs to be spec but something to at least start everyone at the same ground floor. Whether its 7.4 LiPo and 21.5 or 4 cell NiMH and 17.5/27T or whatever, some sort of a spec aspect ought to at least be considered to level things from the start.
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