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Old 02-04-2008, 01:02 PM   #301
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...if the manufacturers are really trying to target this class at the newcomer, and using it as an "inexpensive" class, ...
I don't recall any of the manuf's saying this is tartgeted at newcomers or as an ''inexpensive'' class. I think that has been said by others on this thread.

I could be wrong though.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:08 PM   #302
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I think some of you are too wrapped up it the battery thing. If it's a class you want to run you'll buy what ever equipment that's necessary for the class.

I don't think any of the manuf's are trying to convert people back to this class from TC. I think that it just as simple as there's been enough grumbling about the 235mm class of the past that some of the manuf's have got together and discussed the issuses of the past and are trying not to reduplicate it. Thus the cars are 200mm and will most likely use 4 cells.

Just an opinion, don't kill me 4 it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:45 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by EricF View Post
I don't recall any of the manuf's saying this is tartgeted at newcomers or as an ''inexpensive'' class. I think that has been said by others on this thread.

I could be wrong though.
E
Maybe the manufacturers themselves haven't said it, but a lot of people are saying it. In order for the class to survive, I think there has to be a less expensive option. Some reason for people who already have a lot invested in TC racing to get into another class, and a way for others to get into the hobby less expensively.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:03 PM   #304
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Quante, the only reason I suggested 4 cell is that I want this to be a fun class and not just another speed war. The VTA boys (I know I keep going back to them) run 8 minute mains. Who is to say that this class couldnt run 8 minute mains? As I said a few pages back, I had not addressed things like race lengths yet because I did not see that as one of the major pressing issues in getting this off the ground
But who is saying there's a speed war? Where is it?

7.4v Lipo and 10.5 BL can be a mod class...
7.4v Lipo and 13.5 or 17.5 can intermediate...
7.4v and 21.5BL can be a beginners class...

Explain to me where the speed war is? If you're in a class of 7-8 guys running in 10.5BL and Lipo class, what's all the fuss about the speed or speed war? If its too fast, run the other 17.5 and 21.5 classes...simple.

With 4800mah Lipo you can run up to 25 minute mains with 17.5BL motors, over 20minutes with 10.5 and 13.5...that's not fun? One Lipo is all you need for the whole day, along with your Lipo charger, which you can pick up for $60-$70 if you dont have one!!!

If you want to run slow...like TC stock class slow times, or a bit faster like 19T TC speeds/times...you can easily do this with 7.4V Lipos and BL motors, if you really wanted to...but it seems some of you are already bent and forcing others to adopt 4 cell nimh 1/10 pan car racing, which only benefits the 1/12 and 1/10 oval guys---everyone else has to buy new packs, or work with what they already have...and Lipo'd be out...its not fair, that's all.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:29 PM   #305
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Having driven both and comparing the car setups the PRO10's need to be 4-cell. This car does not need to be alienated from its family(1:12's and 1:10 oval) When technology finds a replacement for the 4-cell pack I am sure all the classes will change over at the same time. Right now 7.4V lipo is not a good solution for any of the pan cars.

I am sure there will be more 1:12 or Oval guys buying PRO10's than Sedan guys the first few years. Sedan racers will continue to run sedans untill their parts stash runs dry. Then they will covert to PRO10 or buy a new sedan. Right now with the cost of sedans being high, most casual or club racers will just stick with what they have.
There wont be a replacement for 4 cell. Not near 4.8 volts anyway. Maybe a123 will bring out a sub c sized cell and you could have a 2s2p pack, but it would still be 6 volts. There maybe a new smaller standard for lipo's but they would still have to be 7.4v, 3.7v is too low for servo's, receivers and transponders.

I'm not suggesting turning people away that want to run 4 cell. Far from it. But imho turning away people wanting to run 6 cell or lipo would be a big mistake.

If the recommended power limit was 6 cell + 10.5/19t or 4 cell no wind limit I think you will find a very close balance and a perfect way to keep things sane but be cater for most tastes.

You're always going to end up with a situation where one combination is going to be an advantage in one situation or another but it's up to each club decided how strict they want to be.

Pro10 here was always outdoor on 1/10th or 1/8th sized tarmac tracks. The only connection with 12th was that the cars are rwd with a fixed axle. Over here the immediate market will be 1/10 tc drivers because it's the same tracks they will be run on. 1/12th guys wont see them running unless they also do tc outside.

I'm really happy about this initiative to revive rwd. If clubs had a rule book they could follow and see the benifits of the rules they would be happy to join in the new standards.

At the end of the day it's up to the club what they will allow. Including race lengh and structure. Most good clubs will put on a race if there are enough people that want to run a new class.

An example is with the bikes. One club runs a race as long as at least 4 turn up but only allow 5 min races instead of the 7 min we normaly do. We don't have any beef with that. It's been a blessing these last few months with a wind chill factor below zero .
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:37 PM   #306
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Corally and CRC already hit the shelves with 6cell's chassis,indoor class is not very popular here and most of the activity is outdoor,six cell's are the perfect choice for mid/large tracks usually used with nitro cars.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:51 PM   #307
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...but it seems some of you are already bent and forcing others to adopt 4 cell nimh 1/10 pan car racing, which only benefits the 1/12 and 1/10 oval guys---everyone else has to buy new packs, or work with what they already have...and Lipo'd be out...its not fair, that's all.
How would that be any different for the people that do only run 1/12 and 1/10 oval

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Old 02-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #308
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We are not trying to force any types of batteries on anyone. We simply feel that if you want to run 7.4v lipo then run it. The cars will fit them. Some are making them fit 6 cell also. I think when everyone sees the advantage of 4 cell mod over 6 cell and a 10.5,you will see things the way we are. Our car will fit 7.4v lipo and 4 cell stick pack. I have made this decision for no other reason than performance. 7.4v really is the only way i can see the lipo cells work with todays electronics. If you run lipo then i think we will need to just run slower motors to compensate for the extra voltage. 6 cell packs will just flat out be at a huge disadvantage over lipo or 4 cell so i decided to eliminate that option from my car completely.

I think you guys will really appreciate what we,the manufaturers have to offer. We are all putting alot of effort into these cars to offer you the best possible products. We will not let you down.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:39 PM   #309
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Its good to hear from somebody like you Jason. I will say that I have no problem if LiPo is allowed, I just would want to keep the costs low for everybody at the start in the motor/battery department. I saw that things were working with the 4 cell limit in VTA and so I thought Itd work with any sort of emerging formula using the 10th pan cars that are coming out. Im not saying that 4 cell should be the be all end all lock down written in stone like the Ten Commandments singular rule. Like many of the guys have said throughout this discussion, Let the guys come out and run and something will be worked out as people run these cars. One of the other beauties of VTA is that they allow deviations on a case by case basis. They still have the official VTA rule set and sanctioned tracks, but if a track wants to do something different, they have no problem allowing it. That is something I think could be done with this as well.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:45 PM   #310
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I agree with you buddy. I will be and have been running mine with 4 cell and a 10.5. I like it alot and would love it to be the norm as it is in 1/12th scale. There are people who want to try 7.4 volt lipo so the option will be there. All of the manufacturers think that 7.4 lipo is too much but people need to find out for themselves. It sounds real cool but in reality,when it comes to performance, I feel 4 cell will have the upper hand. All cars need to turn at some point.

On a side note, I will be trying 7.4v lipo with a 10.5 on our local 1/8th track to see how it goes. I want to make sure it works well just in case.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:54 PM   #311
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How would that be any different for the people that do only run 1/12 and 1/10 oval

E
Majority of what I run is 1:12 road course and 1:10 oval.

That is why I posted, majority of PRO10's will be bought by 1:12 and 1:10 oval racers during the first few years than sedan racers.

PRO10 only needs two classes.

FAST and FASTER

4-cell 10.5, 4-cell MOD.

SPEC10 (Just a Concept) can be for the slower guys who want slower speeds and cheaper cars.

IMO.....the word PRO in PRO10 means more than just your casual racer.

A123 may or may not be replacement battery for 4-cell cars. There are other companies making "soft" cells so it will be a matter of time before a companies like MAXAMPS imports LiFePO4 soft cells and makes a 4-cell or 6-cell sized battery brick.

Since an A123 cell weighs about the same as a Sub-C battery, it may be a ideal replacement for weight. Ling, has even stated that the voltage under load of a LiFePO4 cell drops nearly to the same voltage as a Sub-C under load. But untill anyone test these cells in racing it will be hard to tell if that is the way to go for the whole hobby.

My testing of A123 cells begins this week! I'll be making two 2S2P packs and 1S1P packs for my oval car to test. The 1S1P will also fit my 1:12 car.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:38 PM   #312
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I am just glad Pro 10 is making a come back and there are some manufactures behind it. It looks like cars will have both options 4c and 7.4 lipo. We will have a choice amazing. Since I've switched to lipos for my touring cars and oval car, I'm leaning towards lipo. I race 4c oval and 1/12 on road. Those cars are now parked and collecting dust and don't plan on buying anymore 4c.

The speeds of 21.5/lipo in oval is faster that stock and very managable. Going fast is very cool but for on road its all about throttle control and rolling in the turns. Some racers tend to forget about that and want all out speed.

I am very tempted to put the the combo in my very old EV10 I would like to see what that combo is in a Pro 10 car.

Jason - my DBR12 needs a big brother or conversion kit(DBR10 hint, hint)

Bullfrog - no experience with pan cars Really

Speedxl - you still race, FSEARA is coming your way
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:34 PM   #313
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I made the final changes in the computer today to the DB10R. I will be making the parts this weekend. I actually changed it up quite a bit because i found a new way to accomplish what i was looking for. It makes for a much cleaner wiring job in the car and is extremely easy to balance. Its almost foolproof. Pics to come shortly.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:13 PM   #314
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I made the final changes in the computer today to the DB10R. I will be making the parts this weekend. I actually changed it up quite a bit because i found a new way to accomplish what i was looking for. It makes for a much cleaner wiring job in the car and is extremely easy to balance. Its almost foolproof. Pics to come shortly.

So does this mean we will be seeing info about it on the BMI website soon?
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:27 PM   #315
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Very soon. We are trying to stick to our release at the end of the month. The changes may set it back a week or so but it will be real close.
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