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Old 02-01-2008, 12:33 PM   #226
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I would hope so, but the CRC car will more than likely cost more than their 1/12 car, which costs $265. The Darkside car is $300.

I'm really hoping this class will take off, but as it is, the prices are too high to get into it. At least, for me it is. And as a potential first-time racer, I can just imagine asking "how much does one of those cars cost" and hearing "well, the car itself is $300, then you have to buy batteries, a motor, a radio, a speed control, etc." By contrast, a RTR touring car is $250-300 and includes the radio, electronics, motor, etc.

I don't mean to cast a dark cloud on this discussion, though. I have always been a huge pan car fan. I just hope the manufacturers don't price themselves out of the game before the even get to play...
I agree with your statement to some extent, but let's look at this realistically. Competitive TC's (sport or RTR cars are not competitive), cost $350 and up, before you add any additional "necessities" (a one-way, or diff, thicker chassis etc.) The CRC, Darkside and BMI cars are full-boat, zero hop-up cars. I think a very important part of getting the class off the ground will be getting the current crop of racers to bite on the class, and the 'hi-zoot" factor is what sems to attract the serious racers.

I'm sure it would be possible for some manufacturers to release G10 versions of their cars to shore up cost a bit, which may help bring in new blood. Does Corally still offer the CCT as a RTR?
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:47 PM   #227
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I agree with your statement to some extent, but let's look at this realistically. Competitive TC's (sport or RTR cars are not competitive), cost $350 and up, before you add any additional "necessities" (a one-way, or diff, thicker chassis etc.) The CRC, Darkside and BMI cars are full-boat, zero hop-up cars. I think a very important part of getting the class off the ground will be getting the current crop of racers to bite on the class, and the 'hi-zoot" factor is what sems to attract the serious racers.

I'm sure it would be possible for some manufacturers to release G10 versions of their cars to shore up cost a bit, which may help bring in new blood. Does Corally still offer the CCT as a RTR?
I know you don't see many RTR touring cars winning championships. But, those are experienced racers who are willing to pay what it costs to win.

The whole thing that this Pro 10 class is supposed to do is get new people into the sport. The RTR cars are great ways to get new people into the sport. Low cost and completeness of the package are very important to newcomers. If this class is only affordable to the people who are willing to pay the big bucks for their cars, the only people that will be racing will be the people that already race with expensive touring cars. And they have spent so much money on their TC stuff, I doubt you'd see many just abandoning their TC to run Pro 10.

I've been racing since before a lot of the board members here were born, so I've seen the sport rise in popularity and die out more than once. When touring cars started out, they were aimed at "parking lot racing" and were billed as a great way to get new people into the hobby. But costs quickly skyrocketed and again the newcomer was left with the only option being to pony up a lot of cash to get into it.

If I was to get back into TC racing, it would probably not be with a RTR car. But, I'm not the target audience for RTR's. They are to help new people get into racing. The lower cost is the biggest selling point. Plus, a lot of them can be upgraded to compete with the top of the line cars as the racer's skill and budget allow. I realize that the Pro 10 cars out there now are top of the line, but I haven't seen any mention of offering a cheaper version. I'm not necessarily talking about a RTR (to me, building is just as much fun as racing), but I would like to see a chassis in the $125-150 price range. It doesn't have to be top of the line, but should at least be upgradeable.

I just think that something needs to be done to get new people into the hobby. Our on-road track died out because of lack of attendance. We had more people watching than racing on average days. We had lots of younger people in the audience as well. At least 4 or 5 times a day I would overhear someone asking one of the racers asking how much their car cost, or what it cost to get started. I saw the look on their face when they found out it was out of their price range. I mean, for some people $300 is pocket change. But for many more people, $300 is a pretty good chunk of money.

Of course, that's just my 2...
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:56 PM   #228
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Keeping prices low in this economy will be a tough gig for the smaller MFGs due to the carbon shortages with all the war efforts and such. I was researching prices on pre-preg carbon cloth, and several of the vendors were complaining about the shortages right on their main pages. This alone will drive up the costs of raw materials. Cypress also hit the nail on the head. I am sure that all of the MFGs involved in promoting this class could also cut chassis out of G-10 for the cost-sensitive types... I know that right now Bruce makes the Speed Spec out of some pretty thick fiberglass with a gloss black finish. With silvercans, this class has been a hit at our track. We used to use 19 turn motors in this class, and everyone involved had a blast, we just wanted to slow things down a couple of notches.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:57 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
I know you don't see many RTR touring cars winning championships. But, those are experienced racers who are willing to pay what it costs to win.

The whole thing that this Pro 10 class is supposed to do is get new people into the sport. The RTR cars are great ways to get new people into the sport. Low cost and completeness of the package are very important to newcomers. If this class is only affordable to the people who are willing to pay the big bucks for their cars, the only people that will be racing will be the people that already race with expensive touring cars. And they have spent so much money on their TC stuff, I doubt you'd see many just abandoning their TC to run Pro 10.

I've been racing since before a lot of the board members here were born, so I've seen the sport rise in popularity and die out more than once. When touring cars started out, they were aimed at "parking lot racing" and were billed as a great way to get new people into the hobby. But costs quickly skyrocketed and again the newcomer was left with the only option being to pony up a lot of cash to get into it.

If I was to get back into TC racing, it would probably not be with a RTR car. But, I'm not the target audience for RTR's. They are to help new people get into racing. The lower cost is the biggest selling point. Plus, a lot of them can be upgraded to compete with the top of the line cars as the racer's skill and budget allow. I realize that the Pro 10 cars out there now are top of the line, but I haven't seen any mention of offering a cheaper version. I'm not necessarily talking about a RTR (to me, building is just as much fun as racing), but I would like to see a chassis in the $125-150 price range. It doesn't have to be top of the line, but should at least be upgradeable.

I just think that something needs to be done to get new people into the hobby. Our on-road track died out because of lack of attendance. We had more people watching than racing on average days. We had lots of younger people in the audience as well. At least 4 or 5 times a day I would overhear someone asking one of the racers asking how much their car cost, or what it cost to get started. I saw the look on their face when they found out it was out of their price range. I mean, for some people $300 is pocket change. But for many more people, $300 is a pretty good chunk of money.

Of course, that's just my 2...
I agree a cheaper G10 version of some cars may be a decent alternative, but I think this class is as much about saving existing On-Roaders as it is bringing in new blood. Who were the individuals that the prospective newbies asked about cost? Was it one of the track's fast guys, or someone midpack piloting a sport car? What we need to start stressing to people is that while the initial cost seems high, after buying in the hobby isn't that expensive.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:03 PM   #230
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Any sector of this hobby is expensive starting out. If you get over the buy-in expense, I can't imagine that these cars would be much more expensive to operate then a 12th scale.

For these cars to succeed, your local "top of class" racers will have to embrace this class and truly give it a chance. That will help attrack new people.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:56 PM   #231
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Keep'em 200mm and 2 (two) classes. Stock and Mod (19t and up). I don't get the hype about running mod and 19t. The 19t times at most races are 1 lap back of mod (check the snowbirds).

Try not to kill it b4 it starts...
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:38 PM   #232
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There is more cost involved from a 1/12 to 1/10 scale with more graphite and larger axel. If tubes were used instead of shocks for the side dampners, as well as increased production, the price should come down $25 - $50 so that you would be in the $225 to $250 range. Which is right there with a Gen-X Corally, Darkside..........

This is really true with the Darkside kit, as it has a complete set of IRS ride hight adjusters, 3 IRS shocks and a pro D-ring diff out of the box. Maybe make an entry kit like the mfg's use to and make one version out of G10 fiberglass (which I still use outside today) and take out 2 of the shocks and see where you are. Not sure bushings are an option, but possible.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:39 PM   #233
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I think that would be a good thing to do Eric...I keep harping on the fact that we need to do what we can to get this off the ground. As these chassis hit the markets hopefully some of yall can get a hold of one and test all the different things and really see what works. I still think that 4 cell 19T/10.5 Brushless with GT bodies would be a good start. Maybe as this grows we can expand to include 27T/17.5 and/or Modified. This needs to be as simple as possible and readily accessible to as wide a range as possible at the start though.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:48 PM   #234
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If they would do a fiberglass version, that would be a great idea. Anything to keep the price down. I'm just trying to look at it from the viewpoint of someone outside the hobby who thinks a $75 car from Wal-Mart is expensive. I know any of us that post on this board know about RC already and know why cars cost what they do. But I'm just trying to think about newcomers to the hobby.

Again, though, I'm not trying to bash the people that are working to bring these cars to the market. I think they are a great idea and I'm looking forward to seeing them in person and getting to drive one. I'm just always looking for ways to get new people involved, and the main reason I hear that people don't get involved (or that people get out of the hobby) is the cost. That's why I got out a few years ago. Just to keep up with the competition, I was spending money left and right.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:49 PM   #235
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Cosmo, I see you are from Salem, VA. Are you there currently? I go to school in Lynchburg which is about an hour or so from there
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:10 PM   #236
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I know it is a little bit early to ask for changes, but maybe for the brands that have not announced their cars yet this could work:

Fiber Glass chassis
More Plastic parts

Everything upgradeable (there is the bussines)

Would it work?

I guess it will, since thats the way to bring new people and keep entry cost as low as possible.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:25 PM   #237
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why are people saying that most guys cant handle or drive one of these cars with a 19 turn or lower guys have been doing it for years, im an average driver and a 19t motor would be slow to me because i have always raced 10 & 11 turns in my pan cars. and lets not make it difficult leave things the way they have always been,6 cell stock ,6cell 19t ,6 or 7cell mod & if you want to use brushless/lipo EQUIVALENTS go ahead its not that hard. guys in my experience will slow themselves down if 19t or mod is to fast for them & they feel that they cant handle the speed they will go to stock class on there own! we dont need guys telling us whats to fast because they think that average guys cant handle the speed & controll of these cars, let us decide as we always have
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:53 PM   #238
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Cosmo, I see you are from Salem, VA. Are you there currently? I go to school in Lynchburg which is about an hour or so from there
Yep. Born and raised in Roanoke. I actually live in Roanoke, but work in Salem. I'm familiar with Lynchburg. I used to date a girl that lived in Madison Heights.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:23 PM   #239
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Yep. Born and raised in Roanoke. I actually live in Roanoke, but work in Salem. I'm familiar with Lynchburg. I used to date a girl that lived in Madison Heights.

Sweet man...there arent many tracks in the Lynchburg/Roanoke area. If either of us wanted to test one of these cars itd have to be at Thunder Road in Gordonsville
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:46 PM   #240
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is'nt there a track in chatam,va/martinville,va?
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