R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-31-2008, 01:14 AM   #166
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7ttlm View Post
on the oval drag is huge, on road course its all about mid corner speed for quick laps.. more frontal area and downforce is better.. why do you think the 962 and other gtp cars were so much faster back in the day.. huge aero downforce and huge power.. champcar back in the day, big wings, big power.. fast mid corner..
I want to thank you for pointing out a few more reason why 200mm is better. We dont want more down force more power and more corner speed. Most full scale racing organization figured out something a long time ago. Slower closer raciong is better racing. This is why F1 runs specx fuel, narrow grooved tires and flat bottom cars...why the Nascar Car Of Tomorrow and resitrictor plates exist, why the Champ cars have changed since the mid 80's.

For Pro 10 to make it we need to avoid what killed Pro 10 the first time around. Too much speed (27T 6 cell was as fast as sedan mod) and unrealistic bodies (no one could relate to them).

4 cells, narrower cars and new cool scale type bodies will get us going in the right direction.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 01:53 AM   #167
Tech Elite
 
rx7ttlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,521
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

"I am pretty sure with new bodies and testing the 200mm cars will be faster then the 235mm old cars. They have a lot less frontal area...the oval guys figured this out in the late 80's."

Well, you keep contradicting your self man.. first you say they are going to be faster with testing.. now your saying you think we should slow them down.. which is it? lol

I work in 1:1 motorsports, and limiting the scope of ideas it makes the racing suck trust me lol. Why do you think racing was so big in the mid 90's? And correction, they haven't been slowing the cars down for better racing.. most of it has been for safer racing starting with the death of senna...

Cool bodies I am all for, one of the reasons I think protoform bodies rock is because other than tamiya none of the other bodies look right..
__________________
|Team Xray | RC America |MAX Engines | Hudy |Jaco | KO PROPO |"From Slovakia with Love" T3 | Team Timezone |

Timezone Raceway & Hobbies - http://www.timezonehobbies.com

Last edited by rx7ttlm; 01-31-2008 at 02:16 AM.
rx7ttlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 02:28 AM   #168
Tech Regular
 
HI_808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 359
Default

Man, the pro 10 cars look really cool. With full sized cars, I am a fan of RWD, so this RC version that you can run 1/10 TC bodies on are pretty appealing. I have some experience with 1/12 which makes me like the simplicity of 1/10 pan cars. I may have to pick one of those up!

One thing I have been wondering is, would the pan car configuration work well with rubber tires? I don't plan on trying it if I get a 1/10 pan car, but I just am looking to inquire because of my curiosity.
HI_808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 03:21 AM   #169
Tech Elite
 
JimmyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 4,443
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I would say rubber tire on a pan car is not for the new person. At least under certain track conditions. Foam would make the car soo much easier to drive.

I think I see 2 sides to this discussion so far about Pro10 and what it should be. I feel some want it back for the mod speed and handling. While others, like myself, would like to see it tamed down and made so that everyone (well almost) can enjoy it. This will help the class grow, instead of just saying hey it's for us fast guys and pros who can handle fast cars. So the whole point is to make it accepted by everyone (novice and pro alike). I'm sure eventually, once it's big enough, it could (if necessary) be split into 2 classes. However I would prefer it remain one class.

But once again, this doesn't mean local clubs can't make their own rules. If the local clubs want 6cell 3.5 motors... so be it. But the point HERE, is to form a class/rules as a guideline for National events as well as local clubs to start with. Then go from there. Remember, just because many of you have experience in racing the old skool pro10 cars, doesn't mean everyone else has. So let's help them get started first.

Just my 2
__________________
M.J. McIntyre

Yokomo YRX12
Tamiya TB03
JimmyMac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 03:21 AM   #170
Tech Elite
 
rx7ttlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,521
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

I don't know about this whole touring car tire (rubber) with rear drive.. Its not all that fun IMO. If you have had broken a front belt on a touring car you know what I mean...
__________________
|Team Xray | RC America |MAX Engines | Hudy |Jaco | KO PROPO |"From Slovakia with Love" T3 | Team Timezone |

Timezone Raceway & Hobbies - http://www.timezonehobbies.com
rx7ttlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 03:43 AM   #171
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,918
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I would think ROAR has some existing rules about 1/10th pan cars. Now just adjust for the batteries ( 4 cells) and you've got it.It would probably be 40 oz. Bodies for both the 1/12th and 1/10th cars in the good old days had both Can-Am bodies, GT and GTP bodies available.Almost forgot the Indy (1/10th) and Formula 1 (1/12th by associated new in the bag in my garage). So all these bodies were made now it's time to see if we can get them made again?Sure hope this happens as I'm tired of getting this kicked in my face all the time.
__________________
Team Epic/Trinity -Michael Bruce Hobbies-Team CRC ,Kimbrough Products and GForce.
WGT-R, GT-12 Racing USA (21.5 ), Formula 1 and Home Track is 386 RaceWay,ROAR #7540.
BullFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:17 AM   #172
Tech Elite
 
rx7ttlm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,521
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullFrog View Post
I would think ROAR has some existing rules about 1/10th pan cars. Now just adjust for the batteries ( 4 cells) and you've got it.It would probably be 40 oz. Bodies for both the 1/12th and 1/10th cars in the good old days had both Can-Am bodies, GT and GTP bodies available.Almost forgot the Indy (1/10th) and Formula 1 (1/12th by associated new in the bag in my garage). So all these bodies were made now it's time to see if we can get them made again?Sure hope this happens as I'm tired of getting this kicked in my face all the time.
as with current pan cars, I think the bodies have been been holding back..its hard to resist a 235 car with a p-35 body..
__________________
|Team Xray | RC America |MAX Engines | Hudy |Jaco | KO PROPO |"From Slovakia with Love" T3 | Team Timezone |

Timezone Raceway & Hobbies - http://www.timezonehobbies.com
rx7ttlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:30 AM   #173
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 528
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullFrog View Post
I would think ROAR has some existing rules about 1/10th pan cars. Now just adjust for the batteries ( 4 cells) and you've got it.It would probably be 40 oz. Bodies for both the 1/12th and 1/10th cars in the good old days had both Can-Am bodies, GT and GTP bodies available.Almost forgot the Indy (1/10th) and Formula 1 (1/12th by associated new in the bag in my garage). So all these bodies were made now it's time to see if we can get them made again?Sure hope this happens as I'm tired of getting this kicked in my face all the time.
I dont get why most are saying it should be 4 cells?? I usually run on quite large outside tracks and 4 cells is ok for 1/12th inside but will be too low outside in a pro10. You'll have to gear up so high you'll drain the batteries for sure in under 4 minutes... Ok, unless you'll drive a 10.5 and have the top speed of a carpet track...
6 cells on the other hand give a lot of run time and you need to have control over your triggerfinger instead of just punching it to the back.
__________________
Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.
Quante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:37 AM   #174
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,710
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quante View Post
I dont get why most are saying it should be 4 cells?? I usually run on quite large outside tracks and 4 cells is ok for 1/12th inside but will be too low outside in a pro10. ....
Have you tried 4-cell in a straight axle car. With the weight only slightly higher than a 1/12 but the handling stabilized with the larger footprint a fast 5 min run with a 13.5 is easy. Stop and look at the speeds the oval guys run and run time is not an issue unless you cooking cells.
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - Maxima Fuel - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 05:11 AM   #175
Tech Regular
 
HI_808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyMac View Post
I would say rubber tire on a pan car is not for the new person. At least under certain track conditions. Foam would make the car soo much easier to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7ttlm View Post
I don't know about this whole touring car tire (rubber) with rear drive.. Its not all that fun IMO. If you have had broken a front belt on a touring car you know what I mean...
Thanks guys.

I knew rubber tire TCs have the 4WD and independent suspension for a reason .
HI_808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 06:24 AM   #176
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,918
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quante : I can tell you and everyone else the following. At our last state race (Florida ) I ran my Bolink "Scorpion" with an HPI Trans Am Cuda (Purple with yellow rims) with 4 cell (4600 EP) and a Novak 13.5( sintered rotor 12.5mm) motor against the Touring guys( they also ran 13.5 and lipos). They were limited to a 5.00 gear ratio and I was trying to gear my car to compete. I ran a 84x30 and was as fast as there cars. Our qualifiers were 5 minutes and the main was 8 minutes.I had no problem time wise and speed wise and it was fun.
__________________
Team Epic/Trinity -Michael Bruce Hobbies-Team CRC ,Kimbrough Products and GForce.
WGT-R, GT-12 Racing USA (21.5 ), Formula 1 and Home Track is 386 RaceWay,ROAR #7540.
BullFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 07:13 AM   #177
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Exciting times we live in. 1/10 pan coming back? Pinch me...I'm dreaming.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 07:28 AM   #178
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

I think that having a baseline set of rules (just like with Vintage Trans-Am) will really be what helps this class take off. I had PMd Nexus with a basic set of rules and after he replied I did some more thinking (and reading through the rules for Vintage Trans-Am) and here is what I came up with:


Chassis: Any 200mm 1/10 pan chassis
Batteries: 4 cell NiMH (I forget what the equivalent in LiPo would be but at this point we are looking to have this set up in a manner that much like VTA, allows for easy accessibilty to the new racers and existing racers alike) 4600 mAh
Motor: I actually did a lot of thinking on this one. I read many of the responses and I think that Brushed 19T/Brushless 10.5 seemed to me like the consensus
Weight: 1200 grams (or approx 42.3 ounces)
Ride Height: 4mm minimum (as per ROAR rulebook which I am drawing from as well)
Body spec: GT or GT1 spec bodies (I will put together a list of the ones I know are currently available and add it to this post later)


This is what I have come up with for now. I havent worked out stuff like race lengths or what not as of yet.
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 08:25 AM   #179
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 462
Default

I just don't understand how 6 cell is going to be a good thing. I can't speak for 10th scale pan because I ran it with 1400's back in the day but, we're hitting about 50mph in 12th at CEFX on the straights in mod. And that's only with a 4.5

I think that mod will be plenty fast on the big outdoor tracks with 4 cell. And as far as the dumping thing is concerned, I say bring it. Dumping in mod brings back strategy and driver skill. You have to know what you have and drive accordingly to go for the win. That's mod racing for me.

For the slower classes 4 cell is great. You can race with two 4 cell packs and they're going to be about the same price as one good LiPo (or less). Less voltage will take the punch out of the cars and make them easier for new racers to handle.

We need a class that is slow enough for new people in stock and fast enough for the experienced guys in mod. I think that 4 cell is the way to go for both.

On the LiPo thing that Ted mentioned, I think that single cell voltage is the way to go but there aren't any packs out there for pan cars yet. Once they're available, I say let them run.
Unregistered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 08:38 AM   #180
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Posts: 143
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7ttlm View Post
I don't know about this whole touring car tire (rubber) with rear drive.. Its not all that fun IMO. If you have had broken a front belt on a touring car you know what I mean...
That is because you took a car set up for 4wd and instantly took away the front wheel drive. Tune the thing for just the 2wd and I bet it would handle just fine.

Personally I think every effort needs to be made to keep corner speeds as low as possible. And to avoid another argument about grip, I don't mean turning it into ice skating.
CShearburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2WD pan cars 1/12, 1/10, Pro10 ammo Singapore R/C Racers 123 03-15-2013 12:40 AM
Rebirth of Pro10 bigmac567 Electric On-Road 5 02-22-2008 12:44 PM
WTB - Pro10 timmay70 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 0 07-05-2007 08:02 AM
Corally Pro10 FS/FT trackdesigner71 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 9 07-15-2003 09:42 AM
STS Pro10 Tips OZDC Nitro On-Road 4 04-07-2003 10:57 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:54 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net