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Old 01-30-2008, 07:05 PM   #151
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My 2 cents would be to do the 200mm pan cars with 4 cell and 13.5 / 17.5 brushless. GT body style with correct wings, Corvette, Porsche ......

235mm pan cars with 6 cell and 10.5. Use GTP or Group C bodies and let them run! They are fast outside, but we have had up to 12 cars this past year run with out much damage to the cars or track marshalls. Faster than mod touring and even gas touring given a good set up.

Forget the 190mm touring cars on this site.
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:07 PM   #152
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Well it was mentioned that we need someone to get the ball rolling in order for this to happen. That's why I started this thread to see who's interested and who's involved. Also to see what peoples opinions are on certain things. I can't wait to see what the manufactures come out with as far as chassis rules. As for power plants, its up to the local clubs to decide what they want to run. But for a big race like the Nats, Birds, IIC, etc.... I would like to see a standized set of rules. Some don't like 4cell. Some don't like 6. Why not 5? I would like to see a 10.5 as the Standard. But that's just me.

Like Adrian said, most of those involved are at the Birds. I can't wait for Jason to get back and see if the Snowbirds will host a Pro10 class next year. Well back to work for me.
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:55 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Crashby View Post
No hate'n. Just being real. Have you ever watched a Daytona 24 hour race? Part of the challenge is to drive the 235mm without runing over the little Porsches or more importantly, driving the little Porsches and staying out of the way while staying ahead of the second place car in you class. Besides, the 190mm trophy will be the same size as the 235mm trophy! And after you win the 190mm class trophy, next year maybe you will step up to 200mm or maybe even 235mm.
Have I watched a 24 hour? are you kidding me.. I should smack you lol.. you don't know who this is do you? Patrick dummy lol.. your talkin to the guy that watches more endurance racing than half of north america.. How many people do you know that have watched 17 hours of 24 hours coverage? (didn't watch all 24 because they didn't cover every second of the race).

I get the concept, the actual execution will be the hard part. Just like me lobbying for open practice, people will bitch when the 235 guys are mowing down the 190/200 guys.. and we have a hard enough time getting the class going.. why split the class? It will only make the class have more of an identity crisis.. good idea tho.. How about we come up with a rule set to make them closer to each other.. that way on sunday the 235 and 200mm guys have a class to run.. example.. I don't like running 10.5 its not as fun as mod.. but thats where the people are and it makes for good racing.. Trust me, I don't think theres anyone out there that wants scale racing cars more than me. I play with real race cars every day.. So yes It would be nice to have some 962 vs 333sp action.. but a class split would be a better idea once it grows enough.. similar to tc stock and 10.5.. but you can't turn nothing into something..
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:17 PM   #154
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NOT at the Snowbirds right now
Adrian, I'm with you, and it sucks that I had to miss Minnreg too. Where are you guys running 1/10 pan outside?
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:29 PM   #155
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Maybe we could get an AIM chat going and talk this stuff out. I mean we all have different views on what is a good idea and what is not. Id be willing to fire something up
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:43 PM   #156
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My personal preferences for bodies would be the series around the world that actually run RWD cars on circuits (not ovals).LMP1&2, GT1&2, Super-GT(formerly JGTC), DTM, V8 Supercars, Trans-am series etc. FWD and AWD cars shouldn't be run unless they run RWD in a real racing series(Like the Subaru Imprezza in Super-GT). No Dodge Stratus, Mazda 6 etc.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:45 PM   #157
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daytona prototypes maybe?
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:59 PM   #158
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They're part of the etc.

Personally I find them hideous but if they somehow help to revive pan car then they will be beautiful.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:02 PM   #159
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I think we just make everyone run TOJ's
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:40 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by rx7ttlm View Post
Have I watched a 24 hour? are you kidding me.. I should smack you lol.. you don't know who this is do you? Patrick dummy lol.. your talkin to the guy that watches more endurance racing than half of north america.. How many people do you know that have watched 17 hours of 24 hours coverage? (didn't watch all 24 because they didn't cover every second of the race).

I get the concept, the actual execution will be the hard part. Just like me lobbying for open practice, people will bitch when the 235 guys are mowing down the 190/200 guys.. and we have a hard enough time getting the class going.. why split the class? It will only make the class have more of an identity crisis.. good idea tho.. How about we come up with a rule set to make them closer to each other.. that way on sunday the 235 and 200mm guys have a class to run.. example.. I don't like running 10.5 its not as fun as mod.. but thats where the people are and it makes for good racing.. Trust me, I don't think theres anyone out there that wants scale racing cars more than me. I play with real race cars every day.. So yes It would be nice to have some 962 vs 333sp action.. but a class split would be a better idea once it grows enough.. similar to tc stock and 10.5.. but you can't turn nothing into something..
I know it's you, Patrick!

The reason for the 190mm TC class is to get racers into the series. Once everyone gets a look at the throphies, we are hoping the excitment will build. There are a ton of racers with TC cars and with a little change in bodies and maybe tires, they can get in on the action as well without having to buy a new kit. Then maybe they will buy 200mm or 235mm pan cars and jump up a class once they see how much fun we are having.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:09 PM   #161
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Most of the new cars can be converted to 235mm but everyone is really pushing for only 200mm to be THE class. 235mm cars looked funny and out of scale. I talked to Dale at Protoform and he has some killer ideas for 200mm DP and LM cars....and you know its Protoform so it will look good

I am pretty sure with new bodies and testing the 200mm cars will be faster then the 235mm old cars. They have a lot less frontal area...the oval guys figured this out in the late 80's.

All of the cars will be 200mm out of the box and all the new bodies will be 200mm. 235mm was the past, 200mm is the future.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:38 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V12 View Post
Mathjis
You should say also what motors were used at the German Nats 2007. 4.5T BL - on 6 cells of course. Thatīs fast.
There were also some LRP 4 turns and Novak 3.5's in the field.
Too bad nobody had a speed gun.
I'm guessing the fastest guys were exceeding 100 km/h (approx 60mph)
And most of us agreed that we could get down even more power without problem.
The cars are that easy to drive!
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:44 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
Most of the new cars can be converted to 235mm but everyone is really pushing for only 200mm to be THE class. 235mm cars looked funny and out of scale. I talked to Dale at Protoform and he has some killer ideas for 200mm DP and LM cars....and you know its Protoform so it will look good

I am pretty sure with new bodies and testing the 200mm cars will be faster then the 235mm old cars. They have a lot less frontal area...the oval guys figured this out in the late 80's.

All of the cars will be 200mm out of the box and all the new bodies will be 200mm. 235mm was the past, 200mm is the future.
on the oval drag is huge, on road course its all about mid corner speed for quick laps.. more frontal area and downforce is better.. why do you think the 962 and other gtp cars were so much faster back in the day.. huge aero downforce and huge power.. champcar back in the day, big wings, big power.. fast mid corner..
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:18 PM   #164
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I agree 100% with AdrianM! - regarding 200mm vs 235mm and it's not just because he's so complimentary.

I couldn't have stated it any better myself. If we're going to race r/c cars lets try our best to keep things relatively scale looking with a semblance of realism. I've chosen my wording carefully here. I'd really like to endorse an even "higher level" of realism however I can't. After seeing what's happened in this industry in the last 5 or 6 years with regard to "officially licensed products" it's put all body manufacturers (in north america) between a rock and a hardplace. The licensing issue seems like it's here to stay unfortunately. If I make bodies that are easily identifyable as an Aston Martin DB9 or Ferrari 550 (for example) I need to seek licensing or face possible litigation.
You may ask: "Why not just go ahead and get everything licensed?" Well - I wish it was that easy. I realize that licensed products are virtually everywhere. Every time you see a new Tamiya kit released or take a walk through the hobby section of a Walmart - or even a Toy's R Us you see a lot of product that carries official brand names. More likely than not - all these products you see are fully licensed. However their marketplace is so huge and their turnover is in the million$ on these products thus making at affordable to carry the extra office staff etc to make it all work - and still turn a decent profit. The fact is - we are just too small to be able to afford this luxury. Simple as that. Trust me.

We will do our best to seek licensing were we can, and where it's feasable, but there's a good chance I'll need to purposely avoid certain body styles because a fair profit level will be unlikely or impossible. I know - it sucks. Some upcoming body styles will end up being generic in their names and details because that's the only choice I have. There are reasons for all this corporate greed (by the various auto manufacturers and licensing agencies) - but its too involved to get into. It's just a bummer that the r/c world somehow got caught up in it all. You guys are the ones that suffer.

BUT! That's not to say that there won't be some pretty cool looking stuff coming in the next few months.

Dale - Protoform
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:20 PM   #165
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double post - doh!

Last edited by daleepp; 01-31-2008 at 07:01 AM.
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