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Old 06-23-2003, 02:24 PM   #1
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Default stabillity and grip

Quote:
Originally posted by trf racer
gt milenko.wot u r saying is very interesting[i also have the xxx main set up book].wen i was testing upright shocks gave more overall grip than layed down.
but iam running on polished wooden floor indoors so maybe it give it a bit more stabillity and i 4ort it was grip?
difference between stabillity and grip anyone?
trf man and I have been talking about the effects of moving the shock mount positions. basicly what we have covered is
laydown shocks - more grip
stand up shocks - more stabillity
anyway i'm confused also, and would like to know in other peoples experence what they think?
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Old 06-23-2003, 02:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by PizzaDude
To GT a& trf.

quote:
i figured that moving it in on the a-arm would make it more stand up therefore giving less grip,more corner speed. but what your saying is that leverage has more effect than the angle of the shock.correct?
Yes.
But the best way is to just experiment this, and feel what I mean...

The leverage, makes the car react more twitchy when shocks are mounted at the inner holes.
When using the outside holes, and standup, the shocks will "work" better!

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Old 06-23-2003, 02:54 PM   #3
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GT

quote:
laydown shocks - more grip
stand up shocks - more stabillity

The effect this finally has, can differ quite a bit when moving your shocks, to the inside or outside on your arms.

This will really influence stabillity.
you must try this ontrack, to get the feel...
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:15 PM   #4
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by changing this angle you can make the shock feel a little stiffer (the shock angled or laying down more ) or a little softer ( shock standing more upright ) as the car rolls.
if you want a little more initial turn in but less steering in the middle of the turn , lay the front shock down more or stand the rear more upright. If you want a little more on power steering, lay the rear shocks down more or stand the front more vertical. hope it helps
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tag
by changing this angle you can make the shock feel a little stiffer (the shock angled or laying down more ) or a little softer ( shock standing more upright ) as the car rolls.
please don't take offence(i'm not calling you a liar, but i was sure the oppisite of this is true.
laydown =softer
standup = harder

i did one side of my car with standup and the other side with laydown.
told my girlfriend to close her eyes and tell me what side feels softer.
the laydown was softer.
do you meen that it is more progresive with laydown?
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTMilenko
please don't take offence(i'm not calling you a liar, but i was sure the oppisite of this is true.
laydown =softer
standup = harder

i did one side of my car with standup and the other side with laydown.
told my girlfriend to close her eyes and tell me what side feels softer.
the laydown was softer.
do you meen that it is more progresive with laydown?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your right, it's just physics cause a lstand-up shock has more leverage on the suspension arm....

laydown shocks - more grip
stand up shocks - more stabillity

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not correct, laydown shocks are more stable and stand-up shocks offer more grip and less body roll.......
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:37 PM   #7
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how should it feel when it has more stablility?
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your right, it's just physics cause a lstand-up shock has more leverage on the suspension arm....

laydown shocks - more grip
stand up shocks - more stabillity

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not correct, laydown shocks are more stable and stand-up shocks offer more grip and less body roll.......
but doesn't softer = more grip?
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTMilenko
but doesn't softer = more grip?
Yes and no. If you get too soft they weight transfer will cause you to lose grip.

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Old 06-23-2003, 09:51 PM   #10
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Keep in mind that laying the shocks down more will also scrubb more speed. If you have a car with all of its shocks layed down all the way, it'll have lots of grip, but no corner speed because it's not "free". So don't go crazy with the shock mounting locations, just use it as a fine tuning option.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:10 AM   #11
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Ax and Coop are right!

Also what Ax says, the decelleration, can make you think, yu lose grip.
But instead it's the instabillity that causes your car not to handle easy...


Calvin

It feels as if the car is quite easy to drive.
Cobnsistent and predictable.
I geuss, this is the best way I can explain.


Pizza
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:19 AM   #12
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Earlier, I layed down all my shocks as much as possible. At that point, I found that the car had very good grip in the corners. Later, I used softer springs, sway bars and the shocks more upright (around the middle of max laydown and max upright). This way I became much faster, because the car now is easier to change direction of.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:24 AM   #13
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ok i know if you take anything to to much of a extreme it will usaul have the oppisite effect.
but asides from that, softer = more grip rite? and harder means more corner speed. correct?

which is more stable?
cornering grip or cornering speed.

i've been understanding until i read this

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------
laydown shocks - more grip
stand up shocks - more stabillity

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not correct, laydown shocks are more stable and stand-up shocks offer more grip and less body roll.......

--------------------------------------------------------

i thought after all we talked about, we discovered laydown offers more grip(softer)?
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cole Trickle
Earlier, I layed down all my shocks as much as possible. At that point, I found that the car had very good grip in the corners. Later, I used softer springs, sway bars and the shocks more upright (around the middle of max laydown and max upright). This way I became much faster, because the car now is easier to change direction of.
this is what i use too, i have my shock fairly uprite and just use softer springs/oil
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:35 AM   #15
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I must try changing angles next time I run. I was under the impression that laydown shock would have "less" body roll since the suspension would be harder to compress....

I always run my shocks upright with medium/hard springs.
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