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Old 01-24-2008, 11:59 PM   #46
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I could never figure out where some guys come up with the "fact" you cant drive rubber tire TC's on a technical track... only on a "flowing layout"
Another urban legend :
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:35 AM   #47
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I got out of the hobby about a year and a half ago and I have to say that the cost associated with foam carpet racing was one of the reasons I let it go. The cost went up and the fun went down.

But before I left I did one race at Jackson Raceway in NJ on rubber tires. It was the best time I've had racing a TC...and I didnt even do that well. So while Im not going to argue the technical merits of either tire, I will say for me rubber is just more fun.

So while I am considering coming back to TC on asphalt I will never go back to TC on carpet.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:41 AM   #48
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TC rubber on carpet is pretty nice. Less tire wear than asphalt, too. I'm with you on the foam thing, though. They've managed to make the tires even more crappy and shorter lasting than before. Genius move there.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:48 AM   #49
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I got out of the hobby about a year and a half ago and I have to say that the cost associated with foam carpet racing was one of the reasons I let it go. The cost went up and the fun went down.

But before I left I did one race at Jackson Raceway in NJ on rubber tires. It was the best time I've had racing a TC...and I didnt even do that well. So while Im not going to argue the technical merits of either tire, I will say for me rubber is just more fun.

So while I am considering coming back to TC on asphalt I will never go back to TC on carpet.
Id like to add that even If I wanted to race foam TC on carpet...I couldnt, they've all closed down. All thats left is a small 12th scale track and survives only because there is a good hobby shop attatched to it. A little food for thought there...
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:34 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
How's total turnout though? We need to get back to whatever formula brought on the peak era of TC. Remember when a decent TC was $200 or so? Rubber or foam, TC is getting way too expensive. $400+ for a chassis with a 12 month life cycle?
The peak of Sedan racing was with Rubber tires once foams started to be used more and more it dwindled the overall numbers. I think the increased speed associated with foam tires has risen the cost of the kit because they are so much more advanced to handle that power. Then once rear tires started to be used in the fronts and 1 run tires for the last 2 or 3 seasons that finally sealed the preverbal coffin in my neck of the woods and now looks like most places. Rubber tires right now is gaining interest again because you can club race 3 or 4+ weekends on a set of rubber tires….can you do the same thing on Foams or I should say on the new bigger rim foams? Sometimes its 2 or 3 sets just to club race with Foam tires. And like others have stated it seems like the only people racing foam tires are people that get tires for free or at a discount. I would like to know how these foam tire manufactures are even making any money anymore on sedan tires at this stage. I would like to know how many sets of tires were sold out of the hobby shop at Trackside for the Novak race…..before Parma ran out of tires? Most of my local tracks don’t even stock foam tires for sedans like they use to because the only guys who race the class have sponsorships. These are also the same guys that don’t spend any money in the hobby shop and with the actual paying consumers looking to race rubber tires its clear as day as to why more tracks are pushing them and why rubber tires are gaining ground again. Also the layouts are more wide open because of the increase of speed that the cars have today. In 2006 when Cleveland was tighter then it was this year how many cars finished the A-main in Mod sedan compared to this year? How much closer were the racing times this year compared to last year? Rubber tires right now is helping bring more people back into racing that foam tires have driven away. Foams were cool and cheap when we only raced on purples and plaids when tires were more expensive....now its not fun at all and more and more foam drivers are seeing this especially if you buy your own tires.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:58 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoman View Post
I could never figure out where some guys come up with the "fact" you cant drive rubber tire TC's on a technical track... only on a "flowing layout"
Another urban legend :
Sounds like we should have an episode on Mythbusters!
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
How's total turnout though? We need to get back to whatever formula brought on the peak era of TC. Remember when a decent TC was $200 or so? Rubber or foam, TC is getting way too expensive. $400+ for a chassis with a 12 month life cycle?
sedan rubber racing has actually sparked the weekend turnouts bringing in about 10 to 12 more racers (in all classes). soem guys that race foam have switched to rubber and the only guys running foam are the sponsored guys. i see the sponsored guys moving to rubber cuz that is where the comp will be. some of the way to control cost is to slow the cars a little. grow the stock classes as much as possible since stock is not as hard on sedans.
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:51 AM   #53
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The whole "foam is faster" thing is extremely arbitrary. You slow down more for the turns, true, but you're still driving fairly strapped on the straights, and out of the turns. Rubber never, ever feels slow. In fact, it's a much more intense driving experience because you have to really drive the car, and be mindful now to allow it to step out if you're too aggressive. Comparing lap times between the two is kind of pointless, it's really apples and oranges.
I used a post I thought was pretty accurate to draw this conclusion. It was from Brent after the ICC where both Rubber and Foam were raced by the Pro's. It used actual data to compare the fatality rates of sedans in the top 20 of all classes.

And besides... isn't analyzing the lap times the best method of actually measuring the validity of "foam is faster"?
************************************************** *******
Is it a coincidence that 9 of 10 finished the Mod Rubber main and only 5 of 10 finished the Mod Foam main?

Taking in to account the A & B mains for stock, 19 turn and mod, only 58% (35 of 60) of racers finished their foam tire races. Compare that to 80% (48 of 60) that finished their rubber tire races.

...I'll let you draw your own conclusions...
************************************************** *******

Your point is understood on the way you drive a rubber car vs foam. I prefer rubber tire because of this.
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:27 AM   #54
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with rubber tire racing you dont cut corners as close as foam. with rubber you have to carry corner speed, with foam it's point and shoot and the foam tires carry the cornerspeed. aside from more speed, this maybe another reason why there were more foam dnf's.
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Old 01-25-2008, 11:52 AM   #55
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Kevin you are right on point.

Last time I raced cleveland I think we were in the same main so I think we are about the same skill level and appears we have same opinion.

Competitive foam racing is VERY EXPENSIVE for the advanced club racer that actually pays for his stuff.

Even in the northeast we are slowly starting to see a resurgence of rubber racing due to low cost and higher fun factor. Interest has been building at most of the local tracks in the northeast and alot of guys have simply never run modern rubber tires. Most people are amazed how well modern touring car work on a handout tire and are even more suprised how well the tires perform run after run. You can even be competitive on a budget with a ta05r...a 250$car!

Foam racing will slowly die out at the club level just like modified...just to fast.

Oh yeah and before you internet superstar driver post about mod....go an actually try to make a main at a race in mod then we will talk...cheers.

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Old 01-25-2008, 02:09 PM   #56
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At our track 2 or 3 years ago we had a large turn out of rubber racing.
And like foam you could run any combo of compounds and inserts.
Then the spec tire rule came about and poof, no more rubber racers. Now the swing is back to rubber. Its a vicious circle it seems.
I have always enjoyed foam just for the speed factor. And the freedom to use any one I want even if its just to play around with.
On a club level freedom of choice is pretty important.
My son always liked the squealing sound in the turns.
I think some times on road can get to serious for the new racer.
Foam is constant resetting the set up for the ride height. Car seems for the most part to always be dialed.
And while rubber is a constant try to get it dialed.
What I found in both foam and rubber was to stick around and set it for the main when traction is at its best for a night of racing. With rubber it will be loose all night but when the mains get there its dialed. The track comes to ya.
With foam you can change the diameter to fit the traction. Foams are more consistent than rubber and are easier to drive, the car is more stable.

I guess what I'm saying is if we could apply rubber the same as foam and use a tire according to the traction like foam I would like rubber a lot more.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:39 PM   #57
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sigearhead i heard that i did. its all good. but on that nitro thing dont take it personal when i beat you we will still be friends lol, oh yea and vrc.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:43 PM   #58
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sigearhead we also need to get mclovin into the nitro seen, let him get a little bit of action in that nitro satisfaction. wuz up mclovin. i might have to adopt another nt1
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:47 PM   #59
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where I race, only the nitro guys and mini racers run foams. not sure why, but i think it's because the BRCA only allow foams for nitro, and the minis use worn out nitro tyres.

still, i like rubbers, as on asphalt the handling is so much more realistic. apparently the foams slide slightly, especially in the wet, so they're better for the higher mini's and heavy nitros than the grip of rubbers.

of course another factor is i can't afford foams at the rate they wear out
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:32 AM   #60
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I have to agree with most on this thread that racing rubber touring is definitely alot more fun than racing foam touring. And lap times are alot closer making racing more competitive. At The Track in MD the Stock Rubber class is really taking off.
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