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Old 01-20-2008, 07:23 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Kings Kid View Post
Danny, put the knife down!

Let me help you buy not allowing your Lipos to run at my track!

That serves no purpose either. Cut off the red shrink, wrap the pack in your color of vinyl and re-shrink with clear 6-cell wrap. If your track only allows hardcase packs them paint the case black or wrap it in your favorite color of vinyl.

Your local decal or sign shop offer a wide array of colors for your vinyl needs.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:24 PM   #122
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The bigger problem is if a guy does this charging crap, gets away with it and beats you or someone else and then you/they feel they have to do it too. Now we have a problem.

And Danny- if a guy burns up his motor it doesn't burn down a building or hurt anyone else, it is the users problem. And tell the guy to change his gear ratio if he wants to run more timing (I learned that on the Internet)

Exactly why we should make racers aware of this so tracks will enforce a rule and a way to tech for it.

I see nothing wrong in showing potential issues with certain products or technology.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:27 PM   #123
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Um...have you actually ever seen the way a battery is mounted on an M03 Mini??? I can tell you just from looking at those packs that the 4000 won't fit. It's square and the battery compartment on the M03 Mini is rounded. For TCS competition you aren't allowed to cut out or make modifications to the battery compartment either. I was just hoping that with the growing popularity of Mini racing (even a featured class at the Novak Race) that someone would make something specific to that chassis.
I totally agree... More manufacturers should make Li-Po cells that will fit a Tamiya Mini, which is by far the more popular mini chassis used.

So there's definately a market for these cells. Rather than Orion having the full pie of market share. Maybe SMC can jump into the this area and have 1/2 the share of the pie??

Another manufacturer in will also help consumers with more chioces and not to mention better competitive pricing.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:27 PM   #124
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Exactly why we should make racers aware of this so tracks will enforce a rule and a way to tech for it.

I see nothing wrong in showing potential issues with certain products or technology.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:28 PM   #125
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Sooner or later racers would of found out about it and I think it's better to let people know that this can be dangerous and should not be done. This should open the eyes of track owners and hopefully they can enforce rules that don't allow it.
If that makes you sleep better at night. Track owners dont need to know charge rates, volts, etc down to the exact #'s in order to know this could happen.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:41 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Ben.C View Post
I totally agree... More manufacturers should make Li-Po cells that will fit a Tamiya Mini, which is by far the more popular mini chassis used.

So there's definately a market for these cells. Rather than Orion having the full pie of market share. Maybe SMC can jump into the this area and have 1/2 the share of the pie??

Another manufacturer in will also help consumers with more chioces and not to mention better competitive pricing.
We will look into this but I don't think we can offer a cheaper pack than Orion as the materials used in our packs are very expensive.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:41 PM   #127
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I almost think Danny wants to see LiPo discredited. He's really done nothing but badmouth it and tell us how much it's going to suck when everybody starts using it.


I am beginning to believe this!

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I have said it all along that Lipos although some may see it as saving electric racing I think it may actually kill it but that is my opinion and time will tell.


This is the strangest company thread I have ever read. A company coming out and saying that they feel a product they produce will possibly kill off the hobby they make their money on. Also allowing, whether true or not, dangerous info on ways to charge lipo batteries that could lead to someone getting hurt.

Is it the hopes of SMC to hope lipos blow left and right so they can go back to just selling NiMH? This may not be the case but if you step back and read these posts it just is strange to read...

NiMH aren't banned just lipos are legal. If you don't believe in lipos don't put them on the market. I can't think any smart consumer would buy a product that the company who makes it isn't 100% behind.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:44 PM   #128
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Anyone willing to ruin a $100+ battery and greatly increase the chances for a potentially dangerous lipo failure... just to gain a slight advantage in racing toy cars is a LOSER plain and simple. Especially when this guy knows it's also CHEATING

This is NOT the same as a stock racer guy who buys a bunch of motors to cherry pick, and cuts a brand new comm way down to get a little extra out of it... it's the guy who cranks the comm and runs bearings in it etc. He's a cheater. Oh, and nobody could get hurt by the super-motor-builder loser.

Danny... lipos will not kill electric racing. I agree with whoever said you sound bitter about the lipo "revolution". Now I'm beginning to wonder about SMC. Sounds like you should stick to selling nickel packs and get off the lipo bandwagon. If you are right, then you will reap the rewards... if you are wrong, well... not so good but you made your choice.

I tend to agree that it's good to have this lipo-abuse practice made public knowledge, so that as you said, racers are aware of it and might help police it. But you seem a little too happy about it?
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:51 PM   #129
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You can believe what you want about me but I'm allowed to voice my concerns and give the info I have gathered whether you agree or not.

Time will tell if Lipos will be the savior of RC car racing. Like I said 100 times before this only concerns high end racing and I personally use Lipos in my offroad car with no special cycling just charge and race.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:54 PM   #130
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all of these threads I think are out of control we all know that Roar rules are made to be varied from and lipos are THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK just like NIMH were awhile back all this will pass when H20 POWERED SUBS ARE THE NEW THING WE ARE RACING

brushless/lipo is not going to kill RC these threads and internet are because if I was new and starting out I would chose GOLF instead of this crap but im in and hooked so I read it and do it

SMC has always put out good stuff as far as I know everone and every co. has issues they all do

once again you dont like the kool-aid dont drink it

just my .05 cents
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:01 PM   #131
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Danny--don't you get it! You keep saying "only matters in high end racing" just for your information. All across the country every weekend people are "High End" racing, ever person that goes to the track wants to go as fast as they can. What the heck do you think people care so much about the labels you put on your packs, they all want the highest numbers they can. It is why people buy new cars, new motors, new radios, the best chargers, new tires, etc.

If it didn't matter people would all be happy running 1.15v stick packs, they aren't and that is how you stay in business.

So that means they want the best Lipo packs too, they had better or we don't need SMC.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:01 PM   #132
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Wouldn't it have been simple enough to say " we understand that some racers believe a substantial advantage can be gained by continuing the charging process past the SAFE limit of charging with the Blahblah 35 charger. We have tested this and it can result in a fire. Tracks should be aware that forced overcharging can and will result in fires"

Instead of telling everybody how to do it?

No, you told people how to do it, which was irresponsible. Now your trying to cover your fanny by saying your pointing it out for safety.

Think a little next time.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:04 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Lets say Lipos are legal everywhere and are being used by everyone. To be competitive racers will need to buy a few packs with Lipo GFX or other high amp discharge device and you will need to cylcle them to stay at there peak. This to me doesn't seem any better than taking care of the current sub-c cells. The only difference will be that it will cost more so I don't really see Lipos being much better than sub-c cells.
No. To be competitive, racers need to learn car preparation and setup and then drive better. If everyone is using the same equipment, there is no competitive advantage to be gained by buying more crap than the guy next to you.

I'm done with the days of "buying a few more packs" for any type of placebo competitive advantage propagandized by the battery companies. This thread is easily the most repulsive I have ever read on RCtech. Lipos were a great thing for the 99.999% of racers who aren't pushing the limitations and physically can't drive to support that need on the track, anyway.

What you did with this garbage spewing was give that 15-year old kid who has no idea how to set up his car or even drive a smooth lap back to back, a quick and easy way to get himself a magic bullet on the track.


Let's hope for everyone's sake that this bullet is not aimed at anyone we know.









Personally, I just struck SMC, JACO and PRS off of my list of companies to purchase products from. This is the most irresponsible thing I have seen in this industry to date. You just gave out the instructions for building high explosives in your kitchen, then told everyone that it's all common knowledge, and "someone would try it anyway."

Garbage.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:13 PM   #134
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This is comical.

1) SMC bad mouthed lipo for months, then released their own pack.
2) Then SMC defended their "safe and fast" soft case lipo and touted it as the best lipo pack for racing (without any numbers, data, anything.)
3) Then roar releases rules that invalidate #2 so smc releases hard case lipo and it is the best for racing, and has a 28c rating. (28c being the best because smc numbers are real, and other companies c ratings are made up.)
4) Next smc tolerates and even condones someone who is obviously violating roar rules and putting the track in danger.
5) Finally SMC uses #4 as proof that lipo will not be the saving grace of electric.

The above sequence is perfect if your goal is to squash lipo in racing. I think a better solution to squash lipo is to simply go to 5 cell.

How about this:
1) follow roar safety rules
2) don't make up your own rules
3) realize that a .1 per lap advantage racing toy cars for bowling trophies (I love that line) is not worth the damage that can result from violating #2.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:15 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by OldNSlow2 View Post
Danny--don't you get it! You keep saying "only matters in high end racing" just for your information. All across the country every weekend people are "High End" racing, ever person that goes to the track wants to go as fast as they can. What the heck do you think people care so much about the labels you put on your packs, they all want the highest numbers they can. It is why people buy new cars, new motors, new radios, the best chargers, new tires, etc.

If it didn't matter people would all be happy running 1.15v stick packs, they aren't and that is how you stay in business.

So that means they want the best Lipo packs too, they had better or we don't need SMC.

This is why I'm trying to let everyone know that you will need to cycle and maintain your Lipos to stay on top. The number one reason why most believe Lipos are great is because they were told that you buy one pack and never need to discharge it and you only need to charge it back up after your run. In my testing I have noticed that Lipos have a memory effect and high amp cycling will keep the pack at it's best performance.

I have mentioned this in other threads and most said it's not true and they have been running there one year old Lipo with the same lap times and there is no need to do anything to it.

My goal is to let everyone know that Lipos aren't hassle free like they were suppose to be. This has nothing to do with me or SMC it's just the the fact and truth. Sorry to upset some of you but sharing the info I have and voiceing my concerns should not be crime.

I know for a fact that racers care about performance and that is why we get an extra 20 dollars on cells that are .005 more on average voltage. Lipos are the same as there are differences in voltage and IR from manufacturer to manufacturer. So nothing will change as racers will want to buy the fastest packs and do what it takes to maintain them to keep them as fast as possible. That is just the nature of racing.
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