R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-2008, 02:20 PM   #46
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
*****WARNING: The below info is for experienced racers only. SMC and EA Motorsports do not recommend the following procedures. They deem them UNSAFE and will not assume responsibility for personal injury or property damage.*****


1. Do not attempt to use the following info on any other Lipo packs other than SMC 4000/5000 packs.
2. The following will decrease the life of your pack by at least 3/4.
3. The more the following process is repeated the greater chances are for FIRE dangers.
4. D0 NOT leave your pit area while performing the following procedures.
5. If a FIRE is caused do not use water or conventional fire extinguishers. USE SAND and smother the fire out.
6. Due to mis-use the manufacturers warranty will be void.


CHARGING (CE Lipo updated GFX)
12000mah or 12 amps
2 cell 8.40 peak
(90-95 degree temps)
DO NOT hook up sensor leads

DISCHARGE (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
35 amp
2 cell 6.0 cut-off
(140-150 degree temps)
Hook up sensor leads

CONDITIONING (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
Cycle, Cycle, Cycle...............
Charge then discharge several times prior to racing.

Under high end racing conditions 2 packs are needed. Cycle the pack using the above info and do not delay in-between discharge and charging. When the pack is done discharging go directly into a charge. With the SMC packs 3-4 cycles will "top out" the pack. Many other Lipo packs took 7-10 cycles and still did not top out.

When you are done with your heat/qualifier dump the pack and go right back into a charge.

At the end of your main or day of racing dump the pack done and store without charge. More than 2 weeks do not discharge your pack.

RE-PEAKING

*****Again this is VERY dangerous and can cause serious personal injury.*****

After the pack has completed a normal charge, re-peak with your Lipo GFX on NIHM mode at 10 amps. Let the pack overcharge to 9.00 volts and then stop the GFX. DO NOT WALK AWAY during this process as the pack will catch fire.


*****WARNING: The above info is for experienced racers only. SMC and EA Motorsports do not recommend the above procedures. They deem them UNSAFE and will not assume responsibility for personal injury or property damage.*****

Brilliant... Maybe some of you guys should just stick with NiMh.
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:26 PM   #47
Tech Master
 
PitNamedGordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Highwood, IL
Posts: 1,789
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to PitNamedGordie Send a message via Yahoo to PitNamedGordie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
*****WARNING: The below info is for experienced racers only. SMC and EA Motorsports do not recommend the following procedures. They deem them UNSAFE and will not assume responsibility for personal injury or property damage.*****


1. Do not attempt to use the following info on any other Lipo packs other than SMC 4000/5000 packs.
2. The following will decrease the life of your pack by at least 3/4.
3. The more the following process is repeated the greater chances are for FIRE dangers.
4. D0 NOT leave your pit area while performing the following procedures.
5. If a FIRE is caused do not use water or conventional fire extinguishers. USE SAND and smother the fire out.
6. Due to mis-use the manufacturers warranty will be void.


CHARGING (CE Lipo updated GFX)
12000mah or 12 amps
2 cell 8.40 peak
(90-95 degree temps)
DO NOT hook up sensor leads

DISCHARGE (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
35 amp
2 cell 6.0 cut-off
(140-150 degree temps)
Hook up sensor leads

CONDITIONING (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
Cycle, Cycle, Cycle...............
Charge then discharge several times prior to racing.

Under high end racing conditions 2 packs are needed. Cycle the pack using the above info and do not delay in-between discharge and charging. When the pack is done discharging go directly into a charge. With the SMC packs 3-4 cycles will "top out" the pack. Many other Lipo packs took 7-10 cycles and still did not top out.

When you are done with your heat/qualifier dump the pack and go right back into a charge.

At the end of your main or day of racing dump the pack done and store without charge. More than 2 weeks do not discharge your pack.

RE-PEAKING

*****Again this is VERY dangerous and can cause serious personal injury.*****

After the pack has completed a normal charge, re-peak with your Lipo GFX on NIHM mode at 10 amps. Let the pack overcharge to 9.00 volts and then stop the GFX. DO NOT WALK AWAY during this process as the pack will catch fire.
*****WARNING: The above info is for experienced racers only. SMC and EA Motorsports do not recommend the above procedures. They deem them UNSAFE and will not assume responsibility for personal injury or property damage.*****


Quote:
Originally Posted by sportpak View Post
Brilliant... Maybe some of you guys should just stick with NiMh.
__________________
☆ The Track @ Harbor Hobbies ☆ www.harbor-hobby.net ☆
PitNamedGordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:27 PM   #48
Company Representative
 
Danny/SMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Elkton, VA
Posts: 3,097
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Once Lipos become accepted for high end racing there will be many who will try to push the limits and try to come up with methods of extracting more power out of Lipos. The same is true with sub-c.

The fact is that most pro Lipo racers refuse to understand that Lipos are not as perfect as originally thought and to be comeptitive with Lipos will mean that proper charging/cycling will be required.

The increase in performance gained by cycling and conditioning Lipos is much greater than anything you can do to sub-c packs.
Danny/SMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:28 PM   #49
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,493
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Ok, I just need to keep things simple and I apologize in advance if this is already common knowledge. If a person is racing 10.5 brushless will there any performance advantage of running Lipo over NiMh? How about 13.5?

Thank you in advance.
__________________
There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:28 PM   #50
Tech Fanatic
 
Tornado_Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Anywhere there is racin'
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Here are some cycle numbers to show the Overcharge does perform. They were done using the above charging, discharging, and re-peak.

IB SMC SMC
4200 5000 5000
8.40Peak 9.00Peak

Run 374 518 610
Volt 7.54 7.22 7.46
IR 8.7 10.0 6.9

5 8.34 7.85 8.49
30 7.93 7.63 8.23
60 7.70 7.53 8.08
120 7.60 7.42 7.87
180 7.53 7.32 7.69
240 7.45 7.22 7.52

The IB4200 is deadshorted.
__________________
Tony Moffre
PRS Customer Service

PRS - Hyperdrive - EA Motorsports - Corally USA - Parma/Faskolor - SMC - Killer Koncepts - MSA - Finishline - IRS - Lunsford - Trinity - Guarantee Graphix - RC4Less
Tornado_Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #51
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Tornado, stop being an idiot and posting stuff and saying "if you follow these its really dangerous". We dont need crap like that in our hobby. Its irresponsible. I can be safe but if the guy pitting next to me does this and I get hurt as a result Im going to be very unhappy with you.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #52
Tech Elite
 
Glowster21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,493
Trader Rating: 116 (100%+)
Default

Does the current SMC Lipo where the wires exit from the top have a hard case?
Glowster21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:35 PM   #53
Tech Fanatic
 
Tornado_Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Anywhere there is racin'
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Tornado, stop being an idiot and posting stuff and saying "if you follow these its really dangerous". We dont need crap like that in our hobby. Its irresponsible. I can be safe but if the guy pitting next to me does this and I get hurt as a result Im going to be very unhappy with you.
No need to flame and be childish with the name calling. It takes a big set of balls and some thought to try this without buring the house down.


We all look for ways to go faster and this is one example. Warnings were posted and it was just a matter of time before someone else figured it out and posted what was found.
__________________
Tony Moffre
PRS Customer Service

PRS - Hyperdrive - EA Motorsports - Corally USA - Parma/Faskolor - SMC - Killer Koncepts - MSA - Finishline - IRS - Lunsford - Trinity - Guarantee Graphix - RC4Less

Last edited by Tornado_Racing; 01-20-2008 at 02:53 PM.
Tornado_Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #54
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
No need to flame and be childish with the name calling. It takes a big set of balls and some thought to try this without buring the house down.

We all look for ways to go faster and this is one example. Warnings were posted and it was just a matter of time before someone else figured it out and posted what we have found.
If you are being an idiot then Im going to point it out. Its irresponsible and "idiotic" to post stuff that you know is dangerous. How are you going to feel when someone tries this and burns their house down or hurts someone else.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:40 PM   #55
Tech Master
 
PitNamedGordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Highwood, IL
Posts: 1,789
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to PitNamedGordie Send a message via Yahoo to PitNamedGordie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
No need to flame and be childish with the name calling. It takes a big set of balls and some thought to try this without buring the house down.

We all look for ways to go faster and this is one example. Warnings were posted and it was just a matter of time before someone else figured it out and posted what we have found.
WOW! Didn't know charging my lipos was a test of my manhood.
__________________
☆ The Track @ Harbor Hobbies ☆ www.harbor-hobby.net ☆
PitNamedGordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:41 PM   #56
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: north-west Indiana
Posts: 748
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Wow, I can't believe what I have just read. But anyways, go ahead, charge them like that. Just don't do it around me or anywhere I race. If I find out someone is charging lipo's like that at track I help run, well they won't be running there. I seriously hope dawn reads this thread and makes an addendum for this, so as to not allow this sort of idiocy. I'm sorry but anyone who needs the advantage so much that they are willing to put other people in harms way need to leave this hobby. That includes you nimh folk who overcharge as well.
trilerian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:42 PM   #57
Tech Elite
 
razzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 2,810
Default

Sad to see that guys will be doing the same with lipo that they were doing with nimh batts by pushing the envelope. Only real benefit is to those who have deep pockets or sponsored.
We have guys charge there nimh batts at 8/10 amps for stock racing and after a few weekends of racing sell them oof to the suckers that think they still in great condition.

What happened to "fair play" unfortunately that is the reality that the guys with the bucks or sponsorships still dominate at expense to other racers and in this case the safety risk of fires as well.
Club racers need to add to there must have shopping list to include bomb proof battery charging boxes for nimh and fire proof ones for lipo !!

This is what will tarnish a good thing let alone a good brand !!
__________________
Casterracing ZX1.5R
casterracing EX-1 Pro, SP Silver Arrow
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 17.5, SP GT Pro 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 4.5 V2, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 13.5, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
razzor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:47 PM   #58
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 288
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to 4wd Racer
Default

Thanks for clarifying that Danny. I was aware they had a slight memory effect, but it wasn’t to my attention that it was extreme enough to warrant a high discharge/cycle procedure to obtain it.

Everyone, about the above procedures, I'm pretty sure ROAR has some rules (or if they don't, they should) to prevent the nearby guy pitting you from performing those extreme charging and discharging steps posted by Tornado.

If some of the ROAR rules and guidelines aren't followed for proper use of Lipo's at a race event, i.e. deliberately charging a Lipo pack past 8.04 vlt on purpose during an event the racer would be disqualified, or past a certain charge rate/amp recommended for a such pack. All that has to be done is bring it to the race director's attention in order to put that racer on "probation" for the race event, then disqualified if that is found to be the case. It's simple as that. The same if they aren't charge in a Lipo sack during a such procedure. Rules are in place or hopefully they being written up at this moment if they haven’t yet to prevent that from happening.

Now we COMPLETELY understand why ROAR wants to do this regardless if the pack are either soft or hard case to reduces the chances of injury or incidents from racers trying a such procedure. Even though certain performance increases can be obtained, it isn't safe or worth it to risk injury to your fellow racers in my opinion. No question about it.

Fortunately for me, when it comes to 2wd & 4wd off-road, there's no need to push Lipos to their extreme limits, or cycle them as described above, because they already offer more power than I can use in off-road applications, unlike on-road or oval racing.

Last edited by 4wd Racer; 01-20-2008 at 02:49 PM. Reason: grammar
4wd Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:50 PM   #59
Company Representative
 
Danny/SMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Elkton, VA
Posts: 3,097
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

The fact is that in racing people want to have an edge and try be faster. It has always been like this and will continue to be like this. It's just good for you guys to know that there are ways to make lipos faster or stay faster as many of you have been believeing the hype that you just put one Lipo pack in your car and never discharge it or take care of it. That may work in types of racing where speed/power isn't critical but in applications where it is you will need to train and maintain your Lipos. That is just a fact that people have to understand.
Danny/SMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 02:53 PM   #60
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 288
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to 4wd Racer
Default

right, but the thing is rules are being written up or already are in place by ROAR such as not charging a 2s Lipo pack past 8.04 vlt, etc and so on, to prevent the above procedure or other extreme measures being done at a race event. Otherwise risk disqualifcation, which certainly WILL BE ENFORCED.

I certainly will report it, and expect any other fellow races observing any such procedure to do so as well at any event. That's why rules are being written up in place to prevent that being done for the safety of the racing community, even if there can be certain performance gains from doing so.
4wd Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SMC 4100 and 5200 Hardcase 7.4V 24C Lipos Danny/SMC Electric On-Road 90 04-05-2009 10:55 AM
SMC 4000 mah Hardcase Lipos 28C NIB rraden R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 09-12-2008 11:20 AM
SMC Lipos 7.4 5000mah wfdfiremedic Electric On-Road 624 08-27-2008 10:09 AM
New SMC Lipos 7.4v 2s 4000 and 5000mah HardCase IOwNMkeG R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 03-30-2008 01:54 PM
new maxamps 4000mah 7.4v Lipos $75 aussiebuddha Australia For Sale/Trade 2 02-01-2007 04:08 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:30 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net