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Old 01-20-2008, 01:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post
danny will the 4000 fit the corally rdx (not the new phi)???

The 4000 pack will fit every sedan as it's very thin. I will have the exact size in few days but I believe it will be around 20mm.
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by muahdib4 View Post
The real question is this...will you be making one that will fit the Tamiya M03 Mini's... The TCS has just made them legal but we're all limited only to the Orion/Peak 3200's.

If the Orion 3200 fits than I'm sure our 4000 will fit as far as making it legal for the Tamiya series that is not up to us. Our Lipos will be submitted for ROAR approval so I don't know what needs to be done to get the approval from Tamiya.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:02 AM   #33
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If you use Lipos in types of racing where speed/power is critical then you will need to maintain your Lipos properly to keep them running at there best. This means you will need to discharge them under high amp loads to keep the IR low and voltage as high as possible. Lipos have memory and need to be cycled at high amp loads to keep there performance level. For those playing around or race where speed is not critical then recharging them and not doing anything special to them will work.
Danny, Iím glad to hear of the news of the SMC Lipoís being available in hard cases and look forward to picking up a set or two. Any idea on the street price on those? Iíve always had good luck with SMCís pack in the past.

That being said, I have yet to see any credible evidence or data to support that Lipo's have noticeable memory as you mentioned to warrant them being cycled at high amps load on a regular basis to keep them at the edge of their performance level from all kind of discharge curve Iíve reviewed, with cycles in the hundreds.

I'm not sure why you keep on insisting they have noticeable memory effect, when Linger ALREADY explained to you in the past that the data that you supplied previously, with the Lipoís improving in their numbers each consecutive cycle was most likely due to temperature rise/increase of the LiPo pack each back to back cycle they were put through on the turbo matcher.

I've seen one chart where a Lipo was discharged at a lower amp rate, where the discharge curve looked more normal like NiMh's (high in the beginning and falling off towards the end). However another discharge curve, at a much higher amp rate with the same pack, the Lipo's actually increased voltage later during the discharge (more than at the very beginning of the discharge curve) due to the cells starting to heat up from the higher stress discharge rate, than the lower amp discharge rate in the other test.

Iíve never seen a NiMh pack improve their performance later in the discharge curve, except in case of Lipoís, where the cells started to heat up and perform better later in the discharge curve.

That aside, if you actually have data to support the memory effect you claim with the Lipoís, be sure to include the temp of the pack at the very beginning of the discharge as well as temperature of the pack at the very end of the discharge, so we can see for ourselves, if that plays a factor. As well as beginning & ending temps, each consecutive cycles done there after on the same pack. Iím interested in hearing what you find and what is the case. I also would like to hear what Linger has to say if he reads this thread on that topic for sure.

That aside, would you be willing to supply the source of the cells you sell? Roar now states in order for their pack to be approved for sanctioned racing, that Lipo matchers have to reveal the source of their cell. The last time I asked Chad Phillips about Trinity's Lipo packs source, his only response to me was "secret!". Looks like to me that Trinity has to reveal theirs as well, as Maxamp would too, and the rest of the suppliers on the market. Thanks.

Last edited by 4wd Racer; 01-20-2008 at 02:25 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Yes. These are the LIPO packs that I will be carrying and will be reconmending to all my Team drivers that wish to use Lipo's. One of my team guys has been testing some of the different SMC Lipo's now for a few months with nothing but success. He has track tested them against all other brands currently available and tells me these are the best he has ran and cycled. He is very good about testing and is who I send everything to track test and torture test

EA
For racing applications there is not another Lipo pack on the market that has the voltage output as the SMC 5000. The KOKAM cells come close but for oval 4-minute and on-road 5-minute racing the SMC pack hold a higher voltage output better/longer than any other pack. MANY hours of bench and on-track testing have proven this and the SMC packs were put through some serious abuse during the testing. Un-safe abuse just to test the durability and the packs kept performing.

Alot of $$$ was spent to purchase the common 4000-8000 mah Lipo packs right off the hobbyshop shelves to do independent tests. The packs purchased can be used in the current TC, oval, and off-road applications and not one matched the performace of the SMC 5000.

If there is a negative to the SMC 5000 I would have to say it's the bright red shrink and now hardcase. You can spot one of these packs from accross the track! lol If the red does not fit your fancy then wrap it with some PARMA Carbon Fiber tape. One of my 5000 soft packs I removed the red shrink, wrapped it with Carbon Fiber tape, and then re-shrunk it with 6-cell clear shrink.

Danny and SMC have done their homework on researching the best racing Lipo cells. This translates to better on track performace for us consumers.

Thanks for the hardwork guys!
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:36 AM   #35
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Looks great guys. Very interested to hear about release dates/specs/prices.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
If the Orion 3200 fits than I'm sure our 4000 will fit as far as making it legal for the Tamiya series that is not up to us. Our Lipos will be submitted for ROAR approval so I don't know what needs to be done to get the approval from Tamiya.
Um...have you actually ever seen the way a battery is mounted on an M03 Mini??? I can tell you just from looking at those packs that the 4000 won't fit. It's square and the battery compartment on the M03 Mini is rounded. For TCS competition you aren't allowed to cut out or make modifications to the battery compartment either. I was just hoping that with the growing popularity of Mini racing (even a featured class at the Novak Race) that someone would make something specific to that chassis.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:06 AM   #37
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Ok Danny, I've got to put you on the spot. I've been running the new EnerG cells recently with great success. I also have an Orion 3600 pack that I've been trying to use but it just seems flat compared to the NRG cells. How does this new lipo compare to the NRG cells in power delivery? And will the 5000 pack fit in a PHI?
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by 4wd Racer View Post
That aside, would you be willing to supply the source of the cells you sell? Roar now states in order for their pack to be approved for sanctioned racing, that Lipo matchers have to reveal the source of their cell. The last time I asked Chad Phillips about Trinity's Lipo packs source, his only response to me was "secret!". Looks like to me that Trinity has to reveal theirs as well, as Maxamp would too, and the rest of the suppliers on the market. Thanks.
The manufacture's only have to reveal their source to ROAR....ROAR keeps that information to themselves I believe and I dont think it's going to be made public by ROAR.

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Old 01-20-2008, 08:12 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
Ok Danny, I've got to put you on the spot. I've been running the new EnerG cells recently with great success. I also have an Orion 3600 pack that I've been trying to use but it just seems flat compared to the NRG cells. How does this new lipo compare to the NRG cells in power delivery? And will the 5000 pack fit in a PHI?
Based on testing (bench and track) that a good 6-cell 7.2v NIHM will out perform any 7.4v Lipo pack in stock, 19 turn, 17.5, and 13.5 racing. The NIHM hold higher voltage throughout the discharge curve under a 4-5 minute race length.

In mod the Lipo will be better because of the added runtime and the option to choose a hotter motor to make up for the voltage difference.

The 5000 will pick you up over the 3600 especially out the back door. One thing that really stands out about the SMC packs is the REALLY low IR's. Some get close but the SMC 5000 is much lower resulting in more punch.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:32 AM   #40
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If SMC wishes I can post "SAFE" charging, discharging, and conditioning info for the SMC 4000/5000 packs.

Just let me know Danny.

NOTE: This would only apply for racing conditions and SMC 4000/5000 packs only and may void the warranty of the pack. This is not recomended for any other Lipo pack and is not endorsed by SMC/EA Motorsports but will result in SAFE max performance.
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Last edited by Tornado_Racing; 01-20-2008 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:09 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
Based on testing (bench and track) that a good 6-cell 7.2v NIHM will out perform any 7.4v Lipo pack in stock, 19 turn, 17.5, and 13.5 racing. The NIHM hold higher voltage throughout the discharge curve under a 4-5 minute race length.

In mod the Lipo will be better because of the added runtime and the option to choose a hotter motor to make up for the voltage difference.

The 5000 will pick you up over the 3600 especially out the back door. One thing that really stands out about the SMC packs is the REALLY low IR's. Some get close but the SMC 5000 is much lower resulting in more punch.
Thanks for the response. My lap times (in stock) aren't really any worse with the lipo but I really miss the punch coming out of corners. Looking forward to trying out these packs.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
Ok Danny, I've got to put you on the spot. I've been running the new EnerG cells recently with great success. I also have an Orion 3600 pack that I've been trying to use but it just seems flat compared to the NRG cells. How does this new lipo compare to the NRG cells in power delivery? And will the 5000 pack fit in a PHI?
The 5000 will not fit most of the new sedans with slammed top decks without modifications. If Lipos become competive in high end racing I suspect that Lipo chassis and top decks will be designed..
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
If SMC wishes I can post "SAFE" charging, discharging, and conditioning info for the SMC 4000/5000 packs.

Just let me know Danny.

NOTE: This would only apply for racing conditions and SMC 4000/5000 packs only and may void the warranty of the pack. This is not recomended for any other Lipo pack and is not endorsed by SMC/EA Motorsports but will result in SAFE max performance.

Feel free to post what you do and have found out as when it comes to high end racing everyone will want the edge to extract more out of there Lipo packs.
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:06 AM   #44
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4wd Racer: I did post some numbers and info on one of they other Lipo threads about memory effect. I also talked to Linger and he agreed that Lipos had memory. You can also take a sub-c cell and charge it then let it cool for half an hour to and hour then discharge it and you will see the voltage curve improve as well. You won`t see this if the cells are discharged when they are hot.

Like I said in the past Lipos are fine for racing but they are far from being as great as most want them to be. To race them in types of racing where you need all the power then you will need to keep cycling them at high amp discharges and you will see when Tornado posts his charging cycling info to extract more performance out of Lipo packs.
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:17 PM   #45
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Default SMC 4000/5000 Charging, Discharging, and Conditioning

CHARGING (CE Lipo updated GFX)
12000mah or 12 amps
2 cell 8.40 peak
(90-95 degree temps)
DO NOT hook up sensor leads

DISCHARGE (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
35 amp
2 cell 6.0 cut-off
(140-150 degree temps)
Hook up sensor leads

CONDITIONING (CE Updated Lipo GFX)
Cycle, Cycle, Cycle...............
Charge then discharge several times prior to racing.

Under high end racing conditions 2 packs are needed. Cycle the pack using the above info and do not delay in-between discharge and charging. When the pack is done discharging go directly into a charge. With the SMC packs 3-4 cycles will "top out" the pack. Many other Lipo packs took 7-10 cycles and still did not top out.

When you are done with your heat/qualifier dump the pack and go right back into a charge.

At the end of your main or day of racing dump the pack done and store without charge. More than 2 weeks do not discharge your pack.
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Last edited by Tornado_Racing; 01-21-2008 at 04:51 AM.
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