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Old 01-28-2008, 12:29 PM   #376
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I think the one thing you guys are failing to realize is the hardcase is NOT designed, nor never will be, to contain a malfunction of the cells.......the ability of it to expand or not, is not going to prevent a boom or lessen the effects of one....

The hardcase is purely designed to protect the cells from damage during the course of use..........thats it. Look no further than the ROAR rules that only have a drop test on the case, not an expansion test or a boom containment test......

If your cells expand, you have more than likely done something wrong.....if a cell expands to the point where the case becomes an issue, its more than likely going boom anyways....

I find it funny that Lipo people get their way......stuff gets legalized.......companies finally release stuff, yet they still complain. For once, be satisfied.........or at least till fuel cells are gonna be used....

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Old 01-28-2008, 12:52 PM   #377
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Eddie, I dont think that guy was complaining. He was probably just curious b/c Orion says the lack of gluing is a safety feature. Im not sure of the effects if a cell is trying to puff and something prevents that from happening. He probably thought perhaps it made it worse. I dont know if it does or not. Sounds like a question for Linger.

Let's stop the BS on this forum of consumers asking questions must equal complaining. We are all learning (the consumers, SMC and everyone else -- except maybe Linger).
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:59 PM   #378
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Come on you guys, this thread is supposed to be about the new SMC lipo packs.

It just seems like this is a thread about everything else except the SMC packs. Danny and Jack come on here to fill us in on the latest information on their product line and the next post is about charging then why or why not soft packs or hardcase packs and now why not taped instead or glued.

What do you want from these guys?

Some of you can say you are trying to help but after page after page of it the poor guys are so gun-shy they get a little defensive, who wouldn't.


Why don't we start a thread about charging, temperature, discharge rates, and other general information instead of on any company's thread about their product. This might actually be usefull to all of us rather than searching thru each company's thread looking for bits of information. I found a sight on an airplane forum that has a lot of this information...very interesting.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:59 PM   #379
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...Sorry Double Post
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:30 PM   #380
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cold fusion reactors roar legal yet?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:40 PM   #381
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I'm of the opinion that if a company uses a medium such as the Internet to genrate interest about their products, then they also need to deal with the people. The Internet has always been about empowering the people, not free publicity for businesses. If companies don't want feedback, they need to use their own site to disseminate information, or pay for advertising. It's the nature of the Internet. Power to the people.

I think it's awesome that Jack and Danny mix it up with us, even when things get nasty. R/C stuff aside, I think you guys use your presence on the Internet in a very fair and reasonable way.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:12 PM   #382
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Well, I am of the opinion that the Internet, and those with too much keyboard courage, don't have the right to be constantly adversarial.

I know the Internet is a place for people to offer their opinion but sometimes it is had to tell exactly what the tone is of a post, you just can't hear a tone of voice from a keyboard.

And I also appreciate that Jack and Danny come on here and give the keyboard courage guys a chance to take a shot at them.

Now let's talk about those new SMC packs, like the name of the thread says.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:04 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
I find it funny that Lipo people get their way......stuff gets legalized.......companies finally release stuff, yet they still complain.

Later EddieO
You sound....bitter. Am I wrong?
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:05 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Flack View Post
Well, I am of the opinion that the Internet, and those with too much keyboard courage, don't have the right to be constantly adversarial.
No doubt. I think "John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory" is one of the truest things on the Internet, and describes many online unpleasantries perfectly. I also admit I'm sometimes part of the problem. Other times, it's possible people deserve it. :-D

So, I've seen Danny say these are the best packs on the market. I understand you have to say that about your own cells, and I'm fine with that, but what brings you to that conclusion? I see the voltage is better than other cells, but I can say almost certainly that cycle life will be lower than other cells, and I'm curious about safety. I guess the ROAR testing will help sort that out.

So my question is, how do you quantify "best?" Are you basing that strictly on voltage? 'Cause not all forms of racing value voltage over all other things. The mod off-road racer, for example, might find a battery with better safety and cycle life far more important that a cell with great voltage numbers during its first ~50 cycles.

I'm not trying to be mean or start a fight. I guess what I'm saying is, how are we judging batteries? You guys are saying "best," but that seems VERY subjective considering all the variables.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:15 PM   #385
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I think cycle life is very important to Lipo customers. I know Danny and most cell matchers have enjoyed a base of hardcore racing customers that understand that Nimh cells have a limited life at peak performance and then get turned to club packs or whatever. I don't think that will fly with Lipo though, the standard for lipo places very high importance on cycle life, especially since most lipo users own 1-2 packs per car and charge them over and over in a day. Successful lipos will have to last like the Orions if they are going to be priced like the them, there is not a performance advantage within the rules that will make customers accept $150 batteries that are short-term disposable.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:20 PM   #386
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The overwhelming (though perhaps unspoken) message from matchers is that people care about voltage and NOTHING else. No doubt, it's in their best interest to try and preserve that with LiPo. Whether or not anybody will give a s*** remains to be seen.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:33 PM   #387
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Here is the problem as I see it:

syndrOme wants to know what makes the "Best" pack. Well to a lot of guys that is the pack with the lowest internals and highest voltage. To others like DavidKA he wants long lasting. In my case if I have a pack that goes like hell and makes it through a winter season I am thrilled. If I can do that with one pack it makes it outstanding, way better than "Best".

So since Danny is a "Round Cell" guy and reporting numbers from a GFX I am guessing he is looking at the numbers he reports. Run time, discharge voltage and internals. Since I am from that same crowd that is what I look at too so I am happy as can be with his version of "Best", if he is looking at what I am. He admits that he is just learning about Lipos like the rest of us, so let's all try and learn together.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:08 PM   #388
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Why is it assumed that performance comes at the expense of longevity? At what point do we acknowledge that a racer has "gotten his money's worth" out of a pack? If our packs last 500 cycles instead of 1000, is that too much of a sacrifice in reliability? How about 100? How about 900? Since it is difficult to quantify this relationship, why must it be assumed that anyone wanting performance must sacrifice cycle life? Or reliability? Or safety?

I'm just askin'.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #389
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Convict, I am hardly bitter........I just find many of the Lipo fanatics hypocritical......they whined whined whined about getting LIpO legal......blasted NImH any chance they could and layed into any company not embracing lipo tech............now its legal, companies are releasing stuff and they are still complaining about the products and slamming the companies and/or their products.......we'll get the same new cycle once the new power source of the future comes along......

And while we can maintain that cycle life is the #1 concern.........it's not. I think its safe to say that 99% of the people who were early users of lipo tech were already the type of racer who bought the budget packs or made their packs last the whole season........regardless of losing .1 per lap........

Now, you have the remaining population entering the Lipo scene........with a fair amount of that population being the HARDCORE racer........aka, the guys who pay the extra $30 for .001 of a volt per cell........and .1 lower IR.....the guys that charge at 10 amps, cause it FEELS like it gives more power.....the same guys who true their tires down to be one run foams......so........

What will end up happening, like I have said all along, the cycle will just repeat itself............we will have a battery war, till we get a decent grasp on what are the best cells..........then the geeks will find ways to get .001 more of volt and .1 lower IR..........people will then pay $30 more for those cells......and why? because its all in the name of speed.....

Claim what you want..........most of the same Lipo fanatics, were brushless fanatics......they said the motors could not be tuned.......they were all the same........and as we have we have seen, thats hardly been the case, just like I said way back when.......and there is still plenty left to explore.....

My company didn't do anything lipo because I was not going to put out an unsafe product that wasn't legal for any sanctioned racing.........we are a racing company.........I could of made a quick buck like some other companies did, but I decided to wait until stuff was legal......now that it is, I will move to a Lipo I like........

Whats funny now, is we are arguing about a plastic case.........just wait 12 months:P

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Old 01-28-2008, 10:07 PM   #390
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my only issue is that the batteries are lighter and now the esc and motors are heavier! just when i had my car all ballanced out. now i need to make my car heavier to get the distribution i want. but i do love the lipos and only needing 2 packs is athe greatest thing ever..... no more discharging to .9v per cell. no more battery nurse. i dont think anyone is arguing here.. just a forum... typical at best.
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