SMC 28C High Performance 4000mAh - 5000mAh Hardcase Lipos
01-21-2008, 08:43 AM
#197
Tech Regular
First off, Jack/Danny... If you haven't noticed through the whole thread everyone reads right past your posts and continues attacking so don't worry about it and don't waiste your time. ROAR knows, EFRA knows, IFMAR knows and now be it this thread most other tracks, hobby shops and racers know.
I will admit that I didn't know anything about this until I read this thread this morning. We have a few guys that are die-hard r/c tech info guys and I will definatly check them out on the club races because there has been a majical .2-.3 per lap that comes out during racing (90% of our track is lipo users) compared to practice lap times.
From my personal use - A friend of mine has two cars that he uses and lets me use from time to time to club race with lipo and if anyone thinks that they always run the same reguardless of what you do you are extremely mistaken. If you want me to post the lap times from runs with a pack that sat for a week with 50-75% charge that was just topped off vs. the pack that he had ran 6-7 times that day then I can.... The difference for me was .2-.3 per lap and the overall run was over a lap difference (this was in 10.5 BL TC w/foam tires).... Two packs, same company, same ratings..... All packs were charged with the Orion Avionics charger (no crazy methods) with a balancer.....
I will admit that I didn't know anything about this until I read this thread this morning. We have a few guys that are die-hard r/c tech info guys and I will definatly check them out on the club races because there has been a majical .2-.3 per lap that comes out during racing (90% of our track is lipo users) compared to practice lap times.
From my personal use - A friend of mine has two cars that he uses and lets me use from time to time to club race with lipo and if anyone thinks that they always run the same reguardless of what you do you are extremely mistaken. If you want me to post the lap times from runs with a pack that sat for a week with 50-75% charge that was just topped off vs. the pack that he had ran 6-7 times that day then I can.... The difference for me was .2-.3 per lap and the overall run was over a lap difference (this was in 10.5 BL TC w/foam tires).... Two packs, same company, same ratings..... All packs were charged with the Orion Avionics charger (no crazy methods) with a balancer.....
I will say that a warmer battery will go faster, I have found a battery run for the first time of the day to be slower by some amount. Then again most of us old farts can't run with-in two tenths anyway.
I have never tried re-peaking nor do I know anybody that has. I don't think the chargers we are using will let you if you have it set on Lipo mode.
Ted
01-21-2008, 08:49 AM
#198
These (smc) may be good lipo packs,but all this mumbo jumbo about memory,discharging,charging,internal resistance,etc.etc. is gonna scare track owners.I have been trying to convince a track owner to allow lipos,but his fear greatest fear was Quote :I simply cannot allow it because guys are going to push these batteries and see how much they can get in them and how much they can get out of them and that is gonna get someone hurt:End quote
People are still scared of lipos with the normal charging
Most drivers (like myself) go to lipo to exclude al the battery maint.and now we will have batteries being on the edge.I will keep charging mine(Orion 3200/3600) as per manufaturers instructions.I wish lipos would just be lipos and not like nimhs.Seems we can't just leave well enough alone.Just my 2 cents
People are still scared of lipos with the normal charging
Most drivers (like myself) go to lipo to exclude al the battery maint.and now we will have batteries being on the edge.I will keep charging mine(Orion 3200/3600) as per manufaturers instructions.I wish lipos would just be lipos and not like nimhs.Seems we can't just leave well enough alone.Just my 2 cents
01-21-2008, 08:53 AM
#199
Wow this thread turned sour since I last looked.
I think the main thing that we can take from this is that we MUST enforce a maximum voltage from the start, disqualify those that break the rule with no exceptions, and not let the rule vary or transform over time (like we have allowed with NiMH battery sizes).
I think tracks (ROAR too) should even ban drivers from their tracks if they have been found to violate this rules at other tracks. Basically, ban them from organized R/C racing completely.
I think the main thing that we can take from this is that we MUST enforce a maximum voltage from the start, disqualify those that break the rule with no exceptions, and not let the rule vary or transform over time (like we have allowed with NiMH battery sizes).
I think tracks (ROAR too) should even ban drivers from their tracks if they have been found to violate this rules at other tracks. Basically, ban them from organized R/C racing completely.
01-21-2008, 09:13 AM
#201
Tech Regular
01-21-2008, 09:14 AM
#202
Yep, Rick got it right. Make the punishment for this the R/C equivalent of the death penalty, and you'll stop it right away. That's what has to be done. You're not going to scare people out of using LiPo, it's too late for that. Instead of trying to go that route, do the responsible thing by spreading the word to track owners, and asking that they take it very seriously. Educate them, don't try to manipulate their misgiving about LiPo with worst-case scenario stories. This is about greedy people that would risk lives to win a toy car race, and by not denouncing them outright, you're becoming associated with their evil.
If you guys notice, it's not just the normal internet trolls on this thread telling you this is wrong. There's a lot of people that have defended you in the past that are now saying they don't like the way things are going here. If anything, SMC should issue a press release to track owners about the discovery of this, and make suggestions on how to detect and stop it.
I'm reading everything you guys say, and all I see is spin and backpedaling. Stop worrying about trying to convince people you're right, swallow your pride on this one, and do something for the greater good of R/C. Use your remaining credibility in this hobby to help people.
If you guys notice, it's not just the normal internet trolls on this thread telling you this is wrong. There's a lot of people that have defended you in the past that are now saying they don't like the way things are going here. If anything, SMC should issue a press release to track owners about the discovery of this, and make suggestions on how to detect and stop it.
I'm reading everything you guys say, and all I see is spin and backpedaling. Stop worrying about trying to convince people you're right, swallow your pride on this one, and do something for the greater good of R/C. Use your remaining credibility in this hobby to help people.
01-21-2008, 09:18 AM
#203
Tech Fanatic
Syndrome, do you ever say anything nice about us....ever?
01-21-2008, 09:19 AM
#204
01-21-2008, 09:26 AM
#205
Before it was, "what does JACO have to do with this?" and now it's "don't you have anything nice to say about us?" Pick a lane, Jack.
So is an "internet troll" anyone that disagrees with you about something on a discussion forum and is smart enough to explain why?
The problem is the way the posts in this thread started out, didn't sound like information for safety's sake, but the same rhetoric we've heard before about the dangers and hazzards of LiPos, and "these aren't as good as you guys think they are" followed by actual supported methods of extracting more performance out of YOUR PRODUCTS in a very dangerous way.
If this post was a warning, we all got the message, loud and clear.
So is an "internet troll" anyone that disagrees with you about something on a discussion forum and is smart enough to explain why?
The problem is the way the posts in this thread started out, didn't sound like information for safety's sake, but the same rhetoric we've heard before about the dangers and hazzards of LiPos, and "these aren't as good as you guys think they are" followed by actual supported methods of extracting more performance out of YOUR PRODUCTS in a very dangerous way.
If this post was a warning, we all got the message, loud and clear.
01-21-2008, 09:28 AM
#206
ms sanchez,
i never used performance enhancing charge methods on my lipos.
R
i never used performance enhancing charge methods on my lipos.
R
01-21-2008, 09:28 AM
#207
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
syndr0me - I haven't seen Jack nor Danny post that anyone SHOULD overcharge the lipos. As a matter a fact no one posted that you SHOULD do this.... It was posted that by doing this, you can increase performance with a risk. Danny spoke about cycling to increase the performance being good if you were looking for getting more out of your packs for hard racing. Someone who IS NOT an SMC rep posted about overcharging....
I've watched everyone take shots at SMC for a while on here and 99% of the time I've seen Jack and Danny lead the way with batteries giving racers the best performing cells and even refusing/sending back thousands in cells to a mfg who's products were sub par and outright dangerous to the customers.... They know their stuff and are usually a head of the game reguardless of what all of you think.
I myself am happy to learn about this so I can post warnings and information at our track reguarding this. I will also post that the track that anyone caught doing this will be banned. I suggest that other tracks and all mfg's make up a warning sheet that everyone is well aware of....
I've watched everyone take shots at SMC for a while on here and 99% of the time I've seen Jack and Danny lead the way with batteries giving racers the best performing cells and even refusing/sending back thousands in cells to a mfg who's products were sub par and outright dangerous to the customers.... They know their stuff and are usually a head of the game reguardless of what all of you think.
I myself am happy to learn about this so I can post warnings and information at our track reguarding this. I will also post that the track that anyone caught doing this will be banned. I suggest that other tracks and all mfg's make up a warning sheet that everyone is well aware of....
01-21-2008, 09:32 AM
#208
Here you go Jack:
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.p...mc#post2641191
Syndr0me is one of the most level-headed politically correct people on here. Why make this thread about him or anyone else?
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.p...mc#post2641191
Syndr0me is one of the most level-headed politically correct people on here. Why make this thread about him or anyone else?
01-21-2008, 09:34 AM
#209
I really like the Ener-G packs, and think you guys got totally shafted by IB and EP. It did seem like you guys tried do do the right thing with IB instability and got punished as a result. I was first in line to cheer when Ener-G swept the Novak race. If you read the SMC Ener-G thread, you'll see I was the first to criticize Trinity for their strong arm, negative comments about the cells. I also think your foam tires are the best out right now, and have the sweetest looking rims. I think you do a good job of putting incredible cells in the hands of the average Joe, and I feel confident if I needed the same packs pros use, I could buy one from you, and wouldn't be getting someone's leftovers. I also think SMC and Jaco both have a very fair policy for cell and tire returns. I also appreciate that you guys get on here and mix it up with us commoners, even if you end up sometimes taking a beating as a result. :-)
01-21-2008, 09:37 AM
#210
syndr0me - I haven't seen Jack nor Danny post that anyone SHOULD overcharge the lipos. As a matter a fact no one posted that you SHOULD do this.... It was posted that by doing this, you can increase performance with a risk. Danny spoke about cycling to increase the performance being good if you were looking for getting more out of your packs for hard racing. Someone who IS NOT an SMC rep posted about overcharging....
I've watched everyone take shots at SMC for a while on here and 99% of the time I've seen Jack and Danny lead the way with batteries giving racers the best performing cells and even refusing/sending back thousands in cells to a mfg who's products were sub par and outright dangerous to the customers.... They know their stuff and are usually a head of the game reguardless of what all of you think.
I myself am happy to learn about this so I can post warnings and information at our track reguarding this. I will also post that the track that anyone caught doing this will be banned. I suggest that other tracks and all mfg's make up a warning sheet that everyone is well aware of....
I've watched everyone take shots at SMC for a while on here and 99% of the time I've seen Jack and Danny lead the way with batteries giving racers the best performing cells and even refusing/sending back thousands in cells to a mfg who's products were sub par and outright dangerous to the customers.... They know their stuff and are usually a head of the game reguardless of what all of you think.
I myself am happy to learn about this so I can post warnings and information at our track reguarding this. I will also post that the track that anyone caught doing this will be banned. I suggest that other tracks and all mfg's make up a warning sheet that everyone is well aware of....