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Old 01-21-2008, 05:45 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
wouldn't posting to look for overcharging at your local track be good enough?

Well this is the same company that kept pimping the batch of IB's that were blowing up and kept their ground that there was a compromise to get the best performance instead of working to straighten out the manufacturer and letting them know that thier batts are not safe.
...And the same company that quarantined over 10,000 bad cells, recalled another 4000 from their distributors , and lost their IB distributorship because of their firm demand that IB improve or else. You forgot that part, I guess.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:28 AM   #182
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You are kind of right....You just read the Mitchel report and you can't believe this could happen in your sport. We are the "Mitchel report", not the steroid abusers. Why can't anyone see this?
Jack, I like SMC and JACO products, but I can see why some are upset.

I think your analogy is a little off. This is more like a drug dealer and the manufacturer. You make the drug, but give it to someone else to sell. To top that off, someone went a step further and told everyone how to abuse it....

While Danny and yourself did not post the knowledge on how to abuse/overcharge LiPo's, we've seen Danny post many times that LiPo's have to be cycled and discharged at high-amp loads to attain best performance.

I know in the day of the internet, there is no way to keep this information hidden, but to have someone post the info and poison this thread about when it is supposed to be for a new SMC product announcement, justs sucks.

If I were you (I have a habit of offering advice), I would ask RCTech to lock and/or remove this thread, and then pressure your web developers more and get your product information posted on your newly updated website, mucho pronto....
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Old 01-21-2008, 07:18 AM   #183
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Jack and Danny,

I think all of us appreciate knowing the information about overcharging, that is good to know (so we don't do it). The issue is the step by step instructions and then Danny saying Lipo's aren't that great so he didn't want the post deleted.

When all hell broke loose he kept saying how overcharging was bad, don't do it (but somebody will) but deep cycle is good. Damage was done by then.

I won't overcharge but I will cycle mine if Danny says it will make them faster, thanks Danny for the information.

See how easy that is.
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Old 01-21-2008, 07:27 AM   #184
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TOASTY!!!!!
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:26 AM   #185
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1) If I catch anyone abusing their LiPo packs by overcharging them, I will report him/her to the owner and he/she will be escorted off the premises.

2) A couple of factory drivers are using LiPo at the local track and they use the same routine that I do: 1) Fully charge the battery at home using cc/cv mode. 2) After running the battery, use the cc/cv mode at the track and pull the battery off the charger once it reaches 8.4 volts and cv mode kicks in. 3) Repeat step 2 after every race and after you're done racing. This will allow you to get hundreds of cycles out of your pack and it's how the "pros" maintain their packs.

3) Most of the LiPo information provided by SMC reps on this thread is either unsubstantiated or downright wrong. Consequently, I will not recommend SMC packs to LiPo noobs and I will tell everyone to disregard anything SMC has to say about LiPo. Maybe they should stick to making nickel grenades...
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:36 AM   #186
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3) Most of the LiPo information provided by SMC reps on this thread is either unsubstantiated or downright wrong. Consequently, I will not recommend SMC packs to LiPo noobs and I will tell everyone to disregard anything SMC has to say about LiPo. Maybe they should stick to making nickel grenades...
1} The information I have posted says "don't abuse your packs". This is wrong? BY the way, Danny and I are the only SMC reps posting on here.
2) If you disregard what is stated here you are only burying your head in the sand. You need to realize that people are doing this NOW and be part of the solution instead of blaming SMC.
3) We never "made" anything. See my previous post to get set straight.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:43 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
1} Danny and I are the only SMC reps posting on here.
Jack, since Tony isnt associated with SMC in any way, you should ask him to remove your name from his signature to prevent tarnishing your good name. I guess the confusion came when people suspected he was sponsored by SMC based on his signature.

Last edited by or8ital; 01-21-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:52 AM   #188
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Maybe requiring a good Lipo Sack is in order.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:01 AM   #189
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Curious, I'm unfamiliar with the CE Lipo Update (not that I would want such a overpriced piece of fluff). Was this done in conjunction with a balancing mode? Did you compare a balance regular charge/discharge against it?

What I find confusing is Lipos have been in other parts of the hobbies for years now, yet now suddenly in the car section this overcharging method is discovered? Shouldn' this have cropped up by now in example racing aircraft? Or with Major Lipo Brands such as Kokam or Thunder Power?

The Cats out of the bag either way, and I don't believe censoring what was posted was/is the answer. Giving substantial scientific process proof (no comparisons to other charge methods/chargers given) would go along way one way or another.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:12 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
Curious, I'm unfamiliar with the CE Lipo Update (not that I would want such a overpriced piece of fluff). Was this done in conjunction with a balancing mode? No, I do not feel balancing helps in stock, 19, 17.5, or 13.5 racing. We're not hitting the pack very hard to off-balance the cells. In mod high drain/load conditions balancing should be done. Did you compare a balance regular charge/discharge against it? No, I do not own a balancer.

What I find confusing is Lipos have been in other parts of the hobbies for years now, yet now suddenly in the car section this overcharging method is discovered? Shouldn' this have cropped up by now in example racing aircraft? Or with Major Lipo Brands such as Kokam or Thunder Power?

The Cats out of the bag either way, and I don't believe censoring what was posted was/is the answer. Giving substantial scientific process proof (no comparisons to other charge methods/chargers given) would go along way one way or another.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:14 AM   #191
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First off, Jack/Danny... If you haven't noticed through the whole thread everyone reads right past your posts and continues attacking so don't worry about it and don't waiste your time. ROAR knows, EFRA knows, IFMAR knows and now be it this thread most other tracks, hobby shops and racers know.

I will admit that I didn't know anything about this until I read this thread this morning. We have a few guys that are die-hard r/c tech info guys and I will definatly check them out on the club races because there has been a majical .2-.3 per lap that comes out during racing (90% of our track is lipo users) compared to practice lap times.

From my personal use - A friend of mine has two cars that he uses and lets me use from time to time to club race with lipo and if anyone thinks that they always run the same reguardless of what you do you are extremely mistaken. If you want me to post the lap times from runs with a pack that sat for a week with 50-75% charge that was just topped off vs. the pack that he had ran 6-7 times that day then I can.... The difference for me was .2-.3 per lap and the overall run was over a lap difference (this was in 10.5 BL TC w/foam tires).... Two packs, same company, same ratings..... All packs were charged with the Orion Avionics charger (no crazy methods) with a balancer.....
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:14 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
1}The information I have posted says "don't abuse your packs". This is wrong? BY the way, Danny and I are the only SMC reps posting on here.
On one hand, you guys are saying not to abuse your packs by overcharging them, but on the other hand, you guys are saying that people should do a linear discharge of their LiPos at 35 amps down to 6 volts after every run. The only thing that's been proven to do is degrade the life of the pack. I trust Ling Tong's (linger) opinion based on hard research and statistics more than someone who is apparently using NIMH logic on LiPos in order to sell more packs and supposedly get better performance out of them at the expense of cycle life and safety.

Quote:
2) If you disregard what is stated here you are only burying your head in the sand. You need to realize that people are doing this NOW and be part of the solution instead of blaming SMC.
I am already part of the solution. I've helped several local racers make the LiPo transition by providing them with hard facts. If any of them ask me if they should treat LiPo like NIMH (overcharging, cycling using 35 amp linear discharge, etc...), I will tell them that overcharging is extremely dangerous and research has shown that discharging them at 35 amps down to 6 volts will only degrade the life of the pack.

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3) We never "made" anything. See my previous post to get set straight.
Sorry. I should have written "selling" instead of "making".
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:25 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Tornado_Racing View Post
No, I do not feel balancing helps in stock, 19, 17.5, or 13.5 racing. We're not hitting the pack very hard to off-balance the cells. No, I do not own a balancer.

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Thanks for the reply. Curious, if you don't own a balancer, how can you make that decision about its effects one way or another?
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:27 AM   #194
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lol, u know, u guys would not have those problems if you were running nitro.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:28 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
Thanks for the reply. Curious, if you don't own a balancer, how can you make that decision about its effects one way or another?
One was borrowed to test and I did not feel it made a difference on the bench or track with the above motors.
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