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Old 01-18-2008, 07:34 PM   #121
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Back on the topic. Onroad I don't think 5 years is that great of a period. Maybe 2? Also how many repeat winners are there lately? not a whole lot.. I think the issue at hand is the increased costs, the factory guys want to get the best bang for their buck.. sponsors want results.. so stack the classes so you can hopefully get a good result. They pay for the hotels, food, cars, batteries of the drivers they send. Its not cheap so I can understand that. But by simply baning one driver from the class that doesn't actually solve anything. The issue that really needs to be addressed.. is what are the qualifications that preclude you from racing in stock? and how do you quantify that.

Drawing the line at sponsorship? That excludes me, ok. 50% guys? factory guys? how about this, Factory sponsored or employees aren't allowed to enter a stock class at a national race? 19 turn? hard to play with because ya gotta fill the slots, and with the turnout in recent years at Roar onroad nationals.. they aren't exactly turning people away. Events like the birds, cleveland etc are a diffrent story.. So only non factory sponsored drivers in 19turn? How about drivers in programs like serpents driver development program?

We need more specific and fair guidelines for classes..

It's always great for me to race with Ralph burch, barry, mike, and all the big boys. Because I learn from it. But the guys that are to good for stock at national level, but can't hack it in mod need somewhere to go.. that is 19turn.. I suggest we leave those ranks for the middle men, not the double TC class racers like we see all the time..
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:54 AM   #122
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So what then "defines" a factory driver?

Gets free RC cars?
Gets free electronics?
Gets free batterys?
Gets free tires?
Gets free bodys?
Gets hotels and entry fees paid for?
Gets travel paid for?

Just to put that into perspective there are more 8-18 year old kids (racing with their parents) that fit the profile than anything else.

So we are NOT to reward hard work, skill and dedication? I'd rather take 60th on my own. I don't want to win because somebody thought I'd have a better shot at winning if they took all the good drivers out of my class. Where's the glory in that?

Anybody that's worth a crap we gave the boot to, so Congratulations buddy, here's the trophy, you earned it.....

I'm not sure why this bothers me, but it does. Isn't the goal of a national event to find the absolute BEST drivers in every class?

My thoughts aren't going to change anything, but if ROAR feels it's good for the sport, then I'm right there with ya. But so far, I'm not seeing it.

Just friendly conversation from a guy that proudly finished 59th in 19turn 1/12th scale at Cleveland.
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:40 AM   #123
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factory driver, employed, paid by, the manufacturer...And hey.. I was just throwing things out for conjecture.. I didn't say it was an end all solution.. But like in nascar... The guys in nextel cup that run in the bush series irritate me.. I am just carrying that over to rc.. the guys in the big leagues should stay in the big leagues and give the lil guys without the big money, motors, blah blah blah.. a chance...
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:10 AM   #124
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... But like in nascar... The guys in nextel cup that run in the bush series irritate me.. I am just carrying that over to rc....
Good Example, What RC lacks is any kind of a ranking system. Just throwing this out there...perhaps instead of classes based on motors, it should be based on Rank or every starts as
Sportsman with its own class rules pertaining to whatever, sufficient performance (say top 20%) at regional,state,national level EARNS you the move out to with the rule that NO manufacture sponsorship in this class.
Super-stock, (perhaps based on the 13.5) not to return to sportsman with out say a lengthy departure from RC or Submitting a request to regional director saying why you feel you should be down graded. Again a system in place to progress and EARN the next level
PRO perhaps this is the (in '09 the old) 19t/10.5 class perhaps at this level it may be optional but you can't move on with having met these requirements.
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Everyones yearly license can display there approved ranking
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:33 AM   #125
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I say leave the stock class for non sponsored and privateers. If your goal is to run with the big dogs and gain sponsor status then get there by running in a sponsored class.

The mentality of racing at that magnitude should be an inspiration to a new racer coming up threw the ranks of stock racing. Sponsored racers push people away in stock.
The new racer mentality is to run with them, but its better for them to bump on there own rather than be forced to compete in a building class. It takes the fun out of it. I guess you could say its the ego building class.

19t is not that much faster and is designed closer to the seasoned racer looking for some status.

As for the 5 year penalty that it seems most are going to try and call it.
It could be this way.......5 years for a sponsored winner and 2 for a non sponsored winner.

No disrespect but who's working the hardest here? The sponsored or the non sponsored.? Doing some thing you love is hardly working. Especially if your getting it free and all you have is time for practice.
I think the non sponsored racer works the hardest in stock. And its easier for them to give it up vs. hanging in there and trying to catch sponsored racer.
I think classes got mixed up some where? I thought stock was a skill level class?
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:18 PM   #126
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Paid drivers in stock? I'm assuming you believe that there actually are RC racers who race nothing but stock and 19 turn for their full time job? Let me go ahead and just tell you that this belief is incorrect. Are there incentives, yes, but lets be a tad bit realistic here. If there are those of you who still don't believe this, then you're probably of the same mindset to believe that Elvis didn't die, aliens built the pyramids, and 9-11 was a government conspiracy.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:20 PM   #127
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Paid drivers in stock? I'm assuming you believe that there actually are RC racers who race nothing but stock and 19 turn for their full time job? Let me go ahead and just tell you that this belief is incorrect. Are there incentives, yes, but lets be a tad bit realistic here. If there are those of you who still don't believe this, then you're probably of the same mindset to believe that Elvis didn't die, aliens built the pyramids, and 9-11 was a government conspiracy.
Elvis IS DEAD!?!?!?
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:29 PM   #128
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Paid drivers in stock? I'm assuming you believe that there actually are RC racers who race nothing but stock and 19 turn for their full time job? Let me go ahead and just tell you that this belief is incorrect. Are there incentives, yes, but lets be a tad bit realistic here. If there are those of you who still don't believe this, then you're probably of the same mindset to believe that Elvis didn't die, aliens built the pyramids, and 9-11 was a government conspiracy.
The top level guys before guys actually made money were still the "pros". There may not be paid drivers in stock, but there are pro level drivers in stock. And they should not be there..in my opinion.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:37 PM   #129
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What about a point system like they have in Supercross, you get points for your finish at Snowbirds, Cleveland, Roar Nats, IIC, Halloween Classic, etc. Once you have too many points, you can't run that class at the Roar Nats anymore. I am afraid that kicking a guy out of stock at the Roar Nats will just encourage that person to skip the Nats.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:39 PM   #130
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The top level guys before guys actually made money were still the "pros". There may not be paid drivers in stock, but there are pro level drivers in stock. And they should not be there..in my opinion.
You have 8 guys in a club racing 1/12th stock, no other drivers, just these 8. One of them is hands down better than the rest. How do you solve that? Force him to race by himself? The guy is likely a "pro-level" driver. Or at the very least is considered so by the guys he's racing with.

Anybody know the ratio of ROAR members that actually attend a ROAR nationals? Or ratio of ROAR members that actually attend a ROAR regionals?
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:46 PM   #131
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i like rc pro's concept some sort of points system, but there are flaws in that too lets saw JOE PRO makes the show in the IIC, CLASSIC, CLEVELAND, BIRDS, NATS, but the guy never wins but earns too many points then he cant race stock and he never won???

i would like to see some sort of points system at all ROAR tracks and you get points for every club race you run???

and you have to qualify for nats buy running in the REGION YOU LIVE IN???
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:49 PM   #132
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Sounds like ROAR should just come up with a "you must be slower than ______ to race stock" rule.

I think 5 years is way too long of a time period, 1 year, maybe 2 is sufficient. But really I think this is a poor rule in general. The majority of these "pro" stock drivers are top level regional drivers who have day jobs like everybody else. If one of these guys wins the nats and can't run stock for 5 years, they either have to put in the time and effort to be able to run with the "real pros" (people who get paid to do nothing but race mod 24/7), or risk losing their travel deals because they can't hang in mod.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:13 PM   #133
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You have 8 guys in a club racing 1/12th stock, no other drivers, just these 8. One of them is hands down better than the rest. How do you solve that? Force him to race by himself? The guy is likely a "pro-level" driver. Or at the very least is considered so by the guys he's racing with.

Anybody know the ratio of ROAR members that actually attend a ROAR nationals? Or ratio of ROAR members that actually attend a ROAR regionals?

My post was directed more at the TC stock drivers who receive free parts, travel, and contingency money from their sponsors.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:39 PM   #134
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My post was directed more at the TC stock drivers who receive free parts, travel, and contingency money from their sponsors.
Don't you feel that it would be an impossible task? These very forums are full of wishful thinkers, new guys and hopefuls that only wish to someday become "sponsored". "How do I get sponsored"?

How could you really limit or track it?
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:35 PM   #135
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At the major events wouldn't it make sense to have a stock class for the slower drivers and a pro stock for the sponsored and faster guys. The faster guys that can't hang with the guys in mod could run in the stock pro class or something like that.
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