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Old 01-17-2008, 05:21 PM   #91
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I fail to see how this rule gets sponsored drivers out of the class. First of all, once a so-called sponsored drivers wins and gets banned from the class, the company(s) sponsoring him will rpobably just mov eon to the next best stock driver until he then gets banned. It will be a never-ending cycle and thus you'll never get rid of sponsored drivers. Hopefully the Super Stock and Stock class split will help this, if so, it would have solved this without this new rule... more than likely.

Another scenario... eventually all the really fast/sponsored guys get moved out of stock. Now its the average club racer's turn since all the faster guys are finally gone and you're finally in the A. Oops... now you're back where you started, racing in Super Stock with the sponsored guys again.

For as long as the "win on Sunday sell on Monday" slogan still works (which it always will in racing), you will never stop sponsorship in the most popular class, which happens to be STOCK.

IMO... the best move ROAR made about this whole issue was creating a Stock and Super Stock. This will really shine when the 13.5 takes over in 2009.
One of the most bizarre aspects of R/C racing is the fact that factory sponsored drivers never race stock or 19T in off-road but stick with it in on-road.

As a factory off-road driver, I look at drivers like Dakota Phend and worry about how much competition he is going to be when he starts racing modified. Because he WILL moce up. As a factory on-road driver, I know I will never have to worry about the up and coming on-road driver (unless he is European) because I will never race against them.

Nitro driver all run the same class and are happy do to do so.

Why is on-road so different?
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:29 PM   #92
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Mod is too fast? There's every bit as much prestige in winning stock and 19T as there is mod? On-road cars are more fragile, so the pain of getting up to speed in mod is much higher?

I don't know if it's any of those, but if I had to pick one, I'd have to think it's the speed. "Open" mod is fast enough that basically nobody runs it in the clubs, ever. Where's a guy supposed to get his practice if nobody will race with him?

I know everybody groans at the idea of slowing down mod, but maybe that's what it will take. And I don't mean 5 cell, either. I mean like... make the 10.5 class at Novak the mod class. Now, I must prepare myself for the hate mail. :-)
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:30 PM   #93
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One of the most bizarre aspects of R/C racing is the fact that factory sponsored drivers never race stock or 19T in off-road but stick with it in on-road.
This is exactly what I said in our Excom meeting. The entire concept of ProStock drivers baffled me. In off road, guys move out of stock as fast as the wind and probably too soon... (like me!! LOL)

I do think 5 years is harsh. Yep. That was the point. Lets get this back to the Joe Racer at the club level who has a chance to compete at a national and have fun. ROAR events are open to any current member... and they should be fair.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:37 PM   #94
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Why is on-road so different?
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Mod is too fast? There's every bit as much prestige in winning stock and 19T as there is mod? On-road cars are more fragile, so the pain of getting up to speed in mod is much higher?

I don't know if it's any of those, but if I had to pick one, I'd have to think it's the speed. "Open" mod is fast enough that basically nobody runs it in the clubs, ever. Where's a guy supposed to get his practice if nobody will race with him?
The postage stamp size tracks that are used quite a bit in the US could have something to do with people not stepping up to mod.
We recently had a race here(asphalt foam) where the lap times were in the 8sec range, it was scary trying to negotiate 9 other cars at warp speed!
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:00 PM   #95
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This did not occur 7-8 years ago when there was no 100% travel drivers racing stock. Guys wanted to move up so they could get looked at by factory teams. Now that you can get all set up without having to run mod, why bother?

Also, the cars are so fast right now, it's hard to get guys who want to run mod. I remember racing mod, and going to tracks that would have 1 or 2 heats of mod cars regularly. That was with 2000s and 10 or 12 turn motors.

This is why 19t, or superstock was invented. Which is probably closer to mod speed of that time
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:09 PM   #96
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I've run mod touring and mod 12th...
I've also run mod offroad in 2wd/4wd buggy and 2wd truck.

Rick you know as well as I do and anyone who has run both... mod in offroad is NO WHERE NEAR the speed of mod onroad 12th or touring.

When you're at a national race and in the A and b mains of touring mod have no less than 3-4 factory pro drivers breaking in the main at LEAST the speeds have gotten too fast in onroad. i've seen it at the nats, cleveland, IIC, birds etc. With the top 10-20% of mod touring drivers in the US can't finish more than 6 cars in a main there is a problem.

They either need to slow things down OR start building the touring cars like tanks like they do with 8th offroad cars or something.

I can run 2 months and never break a part in mod offroad, but in mod onroad at indoor carpet tracks I'm guaranteed to break at least once or twice. half the time its just traffic you come up on it so fast you can't even react if they tap a wall etc.

I'm an above avg. racer, but I'm not a full ride guy. I can make the A mains nationally in stock about half the time depends on the weekend, and I can do decent in 19 turn, but I know I can't run mod on that level with you guys and not end up wadding up my car LOL

I'll even give you that mod asphalt rubber tire most people would have no problem running b/c it slows you down enough in the corners due to the lack of grip, but mod foam touring carpet is just ridiculous with the corner speed you guys carry they are rocket ships and not everyone can hold on for 5 minutes...

I don't think your offroad/onroad comparison is a fair comparison... $.02
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:18 PM   #97
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I think you also have to look at this from a regional perspective. In New England, we have very small, tight indoor tracks. Between the four tracks we have in this part of the country, I believe the biggest straight away we have is 75 feet. 19 Turn is hairy, let alone running stock sedan which is sometimes still too fast for some layouts. If we were to have cooperative weather in the summer, those of us who want to run asphalt run mod and 19 turn, simply because its more practical on a larger layout.

The following statement does not apply to everyone, just my perspective:

I go to club races as this is my form of stress relief, and stay with me on this one, it's my hobby. I have a family, career, and grad school to cope with, and racing is my outlet. Its extraordinary impractical to force me to race a class that I dont normally race at a club level (not that I'm going to win the nationals anytime soon). I race because its fun, not so I can go out and practice by myself to prepare for a big race. I go to big races like everyone else, to have fun. I'm not going to speak for everyone, but sponsored stock drivers actually still do this because its fun.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:21 PM   #98
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hey you won the IIC in 12th scale stock... you should be banned too HAHA!!!

how's it going mr boice?
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:23 PM   #99
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Pretty good, hope to see you soon at the Birds!
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:26 PM   #100
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yup I'm just running 12th st and 19... maybe one day I'll venture back into touring country LOL been enjoying my hobby more this way with less headaches... kinda needed a break see you there.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:35 PM   #101
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just look at how mod has gone down hill ever since the 10 turn rule was taken back their are a handfull of drivers in the states that can hold on to a full blowen mod touring car and their a re a frew others that try .. over seas the tracks are alot bigger and if you have noticed they went to five cells whats that saying ... the track for the last dhi cut race was one of the biggest tracks i have ever seen and with five cell brushless they were doig 16 sec laps. if they were on foam it probally would of been higt 11 sec laps thats way to fasst for me
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:40 PM   #102
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wow smyka I can FINALLY agree with you on something OTHER than hack first apoligize later after the A main if you feel like it HAHA!!!!

nah seriously its way too fast now you are right.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:43 PM   #103
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I know 5 cell is a good alternative to for mod since it is easier on electronics and smoothing out the cars. Why not run lipo on the same weight as a 5 cell but put a wind limit to it, 5.5 or 6.5 maybe....
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:47 PM   #104
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Smyka is my hero..... Alot has to with track size. At 360 raceway in long island the lap times in 19t are high 9 sec laps. The track is too small for mod. If you are the only one running mod what fun is that. Its still a hobby that is supposed to be fun.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:56 PM   #105
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fun? he11 whats that? lol

our track is 70 x 48 and stock 12th runs 9.8 second laps same for stock touring...

19 turn is low 9's for sure

mod would be just stupid especially with 7' lanes...
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