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Old 01-22-2008, 11:10 AM   #151
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Am I the only one that thinks this is retarted? 1 Driver every year is going to do nothing. There are 20 guys at any given race that have a chance at winning stock. Removing one guy is going to do nothing.
I agree - I think they need to do more. Opening up the stock class to racers that don't have $3000 to $4000 (a lot of times more) worth of stuff in their pits would help bring in more new racers.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:21 AM   #152
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You are big time stock driver. If all your buddies you were used to running with move up isnt it going to encourage you to move up too? You arent going to feel great about beating the guy you have never heard of. I think thats the idea...

If the top 5 guys move up I can guarentee you there are going to be another 5-15 that move up to in order to keep racing those guys. They arent going to want to feel like they were left back in the "minor leagues".
Mreh, lets all run 19t/10.5 all the time and call it done.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:22 AM   #153
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I personally don't think that kicking a driver out of a class is going to accomplish anything. As long as stock is so fast and challenging that it "means something" to win a big race you'll have a group of "fast" guys in stock.

I'm thinking back. Way back when we had so many racers that "dilluting the classes" wasn't an issue. We had 75 people racing on a weeknight in the winter and 75-100 racing offroad in the summer. This was the case for several tracks in the state, not just ours. What's one of the major differences? Back in the early 90's we had much less battery power and much slower motors. New racers could grab a car and go racing in stock without having to worry about breaking each run. The "fast" guys all ran mod because it was more challenging and you didn't have the new guys in your way. Back in the day, winning a stock national ment that you could get sponsored to run mod. Working to get out of stock is what we all worked towards (except the old timers that were in it as a hobby).

So, what do we have now? Stock in many classes is as fast as mod was in the early 90's. Modified racing is so fast and so hard on the equipment that almost nobody club races with mod anymore. If the club is lucky enough, there are enough "fast" guys to get a 19 turn heat together. The rest of the tracks have just enough people to run stock. New people can't generally handle the speeds of stock and quit before they have a chance to learn how to drive. They usually quit for one of two reasons either A- the fast guys are so impatient in stock or B- they break so much stuff that they can't afford it.

Slow stock to what it was 15-20 years ago and you'll have a class that's easy enough for new racers and slow enough to get the "fast" guys into a faster class. We have a faster "spec" class and I can't for the life of me understand why the stock guys don't want to move into it.

It's funny to me watching the expression or online flames from a hardcore stock racer after you tell them that we should slow stock down. It's the slowest freaking class guys. Want to go fast? How about a running a faster class. It's not rocket science.

Until we get the lowest ROAR class pulled back to a speed that new racers can handle, we'll continue to see declining numbers at the track. Also, the "factory" stock drivers aren't going to move up until stock means little or nothing to win. Stock should be the class that you master and then move up to a faster class that's more challenging.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:39 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
Am I the only one that thinks this is retarted? 1 Driver every year is going to do nothing. There are 20 guys at any given race that have a chance at winning stock. Removing one guy is going to do nothing.
couldn't agree more
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:54 AM   #155
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Is it too far fetched to think that this rule, at least in part, also serves to salvage modified racing (in onroad in the US)? The pool of Mod Onroaders is shallow and everyone makes the excuse that its because the existing guys are the only ones capable of handling the speeds. I call BS. Darroch did it... Dayger did it... Drew is doing it...

I think there are some drivers in stock, top level, that would be very competitive in Mod but for numerous reasons they still run stock. Sponsors orders, enjoying the larger pool of competition, etc etc.

Also this rule doesn't force anyone to MOD... only out of stock. There is the superstock class as well.

I also don't understand how everyone thinks this will cause sandbagging. What are you gonna sandbag for... another chance to sandbag in stock next year? Is a string of second place finishes more appealing than a win and move on to a faster class? Makes no sense to me.

Good move ROAR. Moving the stock guys up... and if they succeed in mod (top 20%) keeping them out.
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:27 PM   #156
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Is it too far fetched to think that this rule, at least in part, also serves to salvage modified racing (in onroad in the US)? The pool of Mod Onroaders is shallow and everyone makes the excuse that its because the existing guys are the only ones capable of handling the speeds. I call BS. Darroch did it... Dayger did it... Drew is doing it...

I think there are some drivers in stock, top level, that would be very competitive in Mod but for numerous reasons they still run stock. Sponsors orders, enjoying the larger pool of competition, etc etc.

Also this rule doesn't force anyone to MOD... only out of stock. There is the superstock class as well.

I also don't understand how everyone thinks this will cause sandbagging. What are you gonna sandbag for... another chance to sandbag in stock next year? Is a string of second place finishes more appealing than a win and move on to a faster class? Makes no sense to me.

Good move ROAR. Moving the stock guys up... and if they succeed in mod (top 20%) keeping them out.
I agree!!

I also think they it may give good sponsorship oppurtunities to some fast guys that don't have sponsorships.
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:30 PM   #157
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All I know is I pay for my OWN FULL ENTRY FEE, HOTEL, AND TRAVEL. I'm not going to bother to pay for any of those if I can only race 1 class. I will just quit going to big races all together if I cant race more than one class. When someone starts paying for ALL of that I will run whatever I'm told, but until then it is still my hobby and I will do what is fun for me. And racing one class is not, running a class that all the Paid individuals run for a living and getting smoked because that is your job is not fun to me.
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:03 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
All I know is I pay for my OWN FULL ENTRY FEE, HOTEL, AND TRAVEL. I'm not going to bother to pay for any of those if I can only race 1 class. I will just quit going to big races all together if I cant race more than one class. When someone starts paying for ALL of that I will run whatever I'm told, but until then it is still my hobby and I will do what is fun for me. And racing one class is not, running a class that all the Paid individuals run for a living and getting smoked because that is your job is not fun to me.
The guys making a living off this stuff should be separated as well. You are by difinition a hobbysit. Although there was a point in r/c's heyday (most drivers)when "pro" drivers were the guys who only receivedf free stuff. But your post touched on the REAL problem:

"...someone starts paying for ALL of that I will run whatever I'm told..."

Sponsors are TELLING their "pro" drivers to race stock.
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:19 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
All I know is I pay for my OWN FULL ENTRY FEE, HOTEL, AND TRAVEL. I'm not going to bother to pay for any of those if I can only race 1 class. I will just quit going to big races all together if I cant race more than one class. When someone starts paying for ALL of that I will run whatever I'm told, but until then it is still my hobby and I will do what is fun for me. And racing one class is not, running a class that all the Paid individuals run for a living and getting smoked because that is your job is not fun to me.
TC & 12th scale <- two classes
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:10 PM   #160
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I have to say this again, the fast guys in stock have nothing to do with the new guy getting into this hobby then getting out.One cannot compare what happens on the National level and make it the sole reason why there is a lack of turnout. When you , I , him or her decide to go to a " National " you should expect to race the Best The Sport Has To Offer, not Sam Needatire or Sally Onelapback. A National is there to showcase the best the sport has to offer, Sally and Sam dont bring that to the table. If people dont like the same people winning all the time then dont sign up to race, ( the best the sport has to offer). Roar may need to include a Sportsman Stock Class where no sponsership is allowed. The signing up for the Stock Class would then be a choice, after winning Sportsman at the Nationals the said driver would have to move up to Stock.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:18 PM   #161
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TC & 12th scale <- two classes
Not all races have 12th scale and why should I be forced to run anything if I'm not getting paid.

Also Its not on a National Level that racing is dying. Its at a local level. And when we used to have a track all the sponsored guys ran 19 turn 9 times out of 10.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:35 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
Not all races have 12th scale and why should I be forced to run anything if I'm not getting paid.

Also Its not on a National Level that racing is dying. Its at a local level. And when we used to have a track all the sponsored guys ran 19 turn 9 times out of 10.
Im not forcing you to run anything. Just suggesting a way you could still race 2 classes at the ROAR nationals if you were to win the stock class. If you dont like that you could run Super Stock and Mod. There will always be racing options for more then 1 class.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:05 PM   #163
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I'd encourage everybody who wants to race the best the hobby has to offer to race mod. It's very simple.


13.5 rubber and 1/12 stock have the most registrants right now. Maybe that should tell us something.

Does anyone know how many people receive incentives, travel, and/or free parts to race 1/12 stock (has to be some) or rubber tire carpet vs. foam on carpet?
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:07 PM   #164
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There is a SIMPLE solution to all of this mess.

Rick Howart mentioned something earlier about off road and on road differences. The biggest issue is SPEED. It's the only major factor in class decisions.


You want the fast, sponsored, pro-funded drivers out of stock class? Slow the class down A LOT—the way Stock class should be. All of the cars are way too fast and all of the indoor tracks are far too small, so no one runs Modified anymore. Today's SuperStock class is Modified of 10-15 years ago.

Slow Stock class down to the point that the guys with stickers all over their shirts wouldn't be caught dead racing in Stock and move voluntarily to SuperStock. Return Stock class to the minor league ranks and return the factory and decaled racers back to the high profile classes where they all belong.




Simple.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:25 PM   #165
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There is a SIMPLE solution to all of this mess.

Rick Howart mentioned something earlier about off road and on road differences. The biggest issue is SPEED. It's the only major factor in class decisions.


You want the fast, sponsored, pro-funded drivers out of stock class? Slow the class down A LOT—the way Stock class should be. All of the cars are way too fast and all of the indoor tracks are far too small, so no one runs Modified anymore. Today's SuperStock class is Modified of 10-15 years ago.

Slow Stock class down to the point that the guys with stickers all over their shirts wouldn't be caught dead racing in Stock and move voluntarily to SuperStock. Return Stock class to the minor league ranks and return the factory and decaled racers back to the high profile classes where they all belong.




Simple.

+1

Look at the 4-Cell Stock Trans-Am classes cropping up. It's slower and the "Fast Guys" kept complaining that they didn't want to go that slow. Trans-Am is beginning to thrive across the country...
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