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Old 01-16-2008, 09:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
So now instead of being able to monitor your battery for any odd happenings, you basically don't know if something is going wrong until all hell breaks loose. Should make for some great YouTube videos.

Are there going to be extreme safety measures taken for exploding NiMh packs, too?
Hmmm...I guess ROAR needs to see footage of the DHI cup and what happened to Gilles Groskamp while he was charging his Nimh cells...the explosion of the pack sent sharpnels across into the spectators 50FT away...Luckily no-one was hit. But it some of it actually went thru Gilles sweater which he was wearing and burned a hole thru it...what if that would go to his eye or a neighbors eye? Or hurt a spectator? This is extremely dangerous and volatitle situation which keeps getting looked over by organizers and manufacturers....one day it will hurt, blind, or kill someone, and all hell will break loose!

Nimh packs are much more volatitle and prone to expliding and causeing seriusly injoury than Orion Lipo, CORE, TRackPower, etc...

The only way these Lipo packs will ignite is if you basically plug in on the wrong polarity and turn the ESC on, and leave it on for about 2-3 seconds...ot will make a hissing sound and get really, really hot, and melt the PCD solder board off and solder off the connectors you use...the pack will not ignite here, if you turn it off...now if its on thermal meltdown and on top of this you dont turn it off and hit throttle or brakes...it will hiss and get even hotter and then ignite...it never explodes...it just goes up in flames about the size of 1 ft tall, and 4-5 inches wide, with smoke and a bad smell...

Of course if it shorts, or theres bad connections, etc, any cell type will vent and self destruct in some way...but for a normal lipo, this is the way its usually damaged.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:39 AM   #62
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This is all great news! Do my 4800 Orions have a chance to be legal? I read that "it must have a lead coming from it" and someone posted about it having cell in parallel as well as in series, making it non-complient. I get lost in interpretting the rules. I need help please....
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:40 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
To me, it just sounds like corporate lawyers got their hands on it and wrote the rules to C.Y.A.
I don't think there is a problem with that. I might just pick up a couple of these lipo sacks for my nimh's. I always worry about having my son next to me in the pits when charging a battery so I send him off to watch the racing instead.

I think this is a positive move for this hobby with a minor inconvenience that we can all get passed. Nice work.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:42 AM   #64
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To me, it just sounds like corporate lawyers got their hands on it and wrote the rules to C.Y.A.
Gotta remember, ROAR is an insurance company, so it's very much in their best interests to identify potential problems and take steps to prevent them. In my opinion, if one single lipo sack in any club across the country prevents a LiPo fire from causing damage, it's all been worth it. I'm not a big fan of paranoia, but I consider this particular requirement a very wise one, albeit slightly inconvenient.

So, how long until someone releases a lipo sack that can also warm your battery as it charges? :-)
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:46 AM   #65
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Yes, I don't want this to seem like complainingóbecause it's notówe are all VERY appreciative of what steps have been taken in a very short period of time for electric racers. This is FANTASTIC news.

To me, it just sounds like corporate lawyers got their hands on it and wrote the rules to C.Y.A.

Wow you people got what you wanted and your still not happy?
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:47 AM   #66
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Wow you people got what you wanted and your still not happy?
Exactly..

Thanks Dave...
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:50 AM   #67
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would this affect nimh prices?
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:53 AM   #68
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No complaints here. Just happy to see a move forward. I still think NiMh safety needs to be addressed.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:00 AM   #69
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Default everybody is happy

Wow, great news. Everyone is happy except for the matchers. But oh well.

I truly applaud roar for making this decision and establishing these rules. I wonder if this would have happened if Dawn had not become president and if it would have happened, how long it would have taken.

I believe roar's lipo consultant was linger on rctech (maybe not.) Anyway, another good job salute goes to whoever the consultant was/is and the commitee that hammered out the rules. Mandating hard cases and charging in lipo sacks, as well as overcharge and safety testing, will mean that lipo's are safer than nimh ever was.

In terms of which lipo packs are approved, I am confident that the orion/peak 3200/3600/4800 will all be approved since they are obviously safe, as shown through kokam's and orions 2-3 year history in r/c cars. Add to that the fact that the rules for lipo almost mirror the spec and fact sheet on the orion/kokam packs.

I am sure that in the next few months, all of the other "LIPO" companies will redesign their packs to pass roar rules.

This is a giant step into the future of r/c. Again great job ROAR!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by billjacobs; 01-16-2008 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:02 AM   #70
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We saw a Nk-Ml blow up at last week`s ECT race, right in someones face !

So if Roar really cares about safety, they slipped on this one....(pun)
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:03 AM   #71
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Default Charging...

I can charge my son's AirHog Lipo battery without a bunker. The charging parameters are set and can not be changed.

99% of the time a battery's problem (Lipo=fire or SubC=explosion) it's the user charging incorrectly.

The rules should define charging parameters and have guidelines for safety. Approved chargers and balancers, along with approved batteries.

One good thing - Lipo's "punch" is not increased with higher charge rates (or any tricks) like Sub C's are. Once racers realize that their Lipo will not perform any better by not charging according to the guidelines, this will all be a non-issue.
8.4 volts is 8.4 volts.

Still, thanks ROAR for stepping up.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:12 AM   #72
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Racing in a class is about everyone racing apples to apples. so we have to make sure we do not allow any oranges to race apples.

yeah.. everone knows orange is faster....
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:13 AM   #73
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Johan, you join ROAR yet ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Hmmm...I guess ROAR needs to see footage of the DHI cup and what happened to Gilles Groskamp while he was charging his Nimh cells...the explosion of the pack sent sharpnels across into the spectators 50FT away...Luckily no-one was hit. But it some of it actually went thru Gilles sweater which he was wearing and burned a hole thru it...what if that would go to his eye or a neighbors eye? Or hurt a spectator? This is extremely dangerous and volatitle situation which keeps getting looked over by organizers and manufacturers....one day it will hurt, blind, or kill someone, and all hell will break loose!

Nimh packs are much more volatitle and prone to expliding and causeing seriusly injoury than Orion Lipo, CORE, TRackPower, etc...

The only way these Lipo packs will ignite is if you basically plug in on the wrong polarity and turn the ESC on, and leave it on for about 2-3 seconds...ot will make a hissing sound and get really, really hot, and melt the PCD solder board off and solder off the connectors you use...the pack will not ignite here, if you turn it off...now if its on thermal meltdown and on top of this you dont turn it off and hit throttle or brakes...it will hiss and get even hotter and then ignite...it never explodes...it just goes up in flames about the size of 1 ft tall, and 4-5 inches wide, with smoke and a bad smell...

Of course if it shorts, or theres bad connections, etc, any cell type will vent and self destruct in some way...but for a normal lipo, this is the way its usually damaged.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:14 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Kraig View Post
I don't think there is a problem with that. I might just pick up a couple of these lipo sacks for my nimh's. I always worry about having my son next to me in the pits when charging a battery so I send him off to watch the racing instead.

I think this is a positive move for this hobby with a minor inconvenience that we can all get passed. Nice work.

Kraig.

I'm sure we'll see a Much More Racing, Core R/C or someone making a Lipo sack/bunker or whatever that actually looks cool. Not just something that looks like a army issue ziplock bag or a can where I store cookies in :P
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:16 AM   #75
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Wow you people got what you wanted and your still not happy?
No, it's not what I wanted. And no, I am happy. Don't generalize or assume anything.

This just seems to lend credence to may of those people who fear everything for no reason, yet does not address problems with NiMh cells. It's still the same old thing with LiPos and paranoia, only now they are ROAR legal. It seems as though most tracks I have been to in the last year had been allowing them already, so this has just been a formality for those tracks remaining that use ROAR insurance.

I don't mind safety precautions in rules. I don't mind mandating quality standards and approved products. But until someone shows me a LiPo bunker that vents charging gasses, allows monitoring of the pack as it charges and keeps NiMh from blowing up next to me, too, I won't be dropping $30 for a placebo.


That's just me, I could be wrong.
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