288LikesTamiya mini cooper
12-08-2010, 03:41 AM
Jason as Calvin said each track to their own.
Having never been to Windsor do you race there at night?
From what Calvin said about it being a tight track and if it is at night more toe in the rear will help keep the heat in the tires.
At Boronia at night I run 2 degree rear toe, this track is also tight. I can get it to work with zero but must run softer rear tire.
The problem I found with to much toe is that when the track has good temp in it you tend to overheat the tires mid race, this can be confusing to some as you feel you need a softer rear or more rear grip when you actually just need a harder tire.
Loose in the first 2 laps is good as this is hopefully before the race starts.
The other thing that I have found with the wandering is, to hard shock oil in the front makes the car to aggresive in initial steering so you are always correcting the steering.
This feels like the car is wandering when most times it is just to responsive to steering input.
Try more toe out on the front and a softer front shock oil.
Having never been to Windsor do you race there at night?
From what Calvin said about it being a tight track and if it is at night more toe in the rear will help keep the heat in the tires.
At Boronia at night I run 2 degree rear toe, this track is also tight. I can get it to work with zero but must run softer rear tire.
The problem I found with to much toe is that when the track has good temp in it you tend to overheat the tires mid race, this can be confusing to some as you feel you need a softer rear or more rear grip when you actually just need a harder tire.
Loose in the first 2 laps is good as this is hopefully before the race starts.
The other thing that I have found with the wandering is, to hard shock oil in the front makes the car to aggresive in initial steering so you are always correcting the steering.
This feels like the car is wandering when most times it is just to responsive to steering input.
Try more toe out on the front and a softer front shock oil.
I find your comment about to much toe and overheating the tyres intriguing. Windsor Indoor track high grip 30/40 degree days in summer. I might have to invest in some harder rears just in case. This would explain why sometimes what i percieved to be a hail mary play throwing on harder tyres sometimes works.
happy to share my current setup. Basically i have
30wt oil all round
3 racing soft springs with 5mm spacers in all corner
2 degree camber
3deg blocks
Xpatterns up front
Cross 36's on rear in summer
Sweep 25/33 on rear in winter.
Usual bling (i know it does nothing but call me a bower bird.)
Calvin is right i need to try more tracks, different surfaces, times of days etc.
Last edited by Wylie27; 12-08-2010 at 03:58 AM. Reason: added text
12-08-2010, 03:53 AM
When you say softer oil do you mean like thinner as in lower number?
I have always associated shock oils with how reactive a shock is not whether they feel harder or softer.
Personally ive always run 40wt shock oil 3 holes. But thats just out of habit because thats what i always ran in my cyclone (maybe sometimes 30wt on the rear of the cyclone i think). Never felt the need to change the shock oil on my mini. Although thats probably because i hate building shocks!
Also personally i have never tried the 3 degree rear blocks. I wonder if thats why i have a lot of trouble starting the nights up at windsor till the track starts to change or i get used to the conditions. I think all my cars currently have the standard 1.5.
But the comment bjsinner's is very valid in that it will work the rear tyres harder and generate more heat.
I have always associated shock oils with how reactive a shock is not whether they feel harder or softer.
Personally ive always run 40wt shock oil 3 holes. But thats just out of habit because thats what i always ran in my cyclone (maybe sometimes 30wt on the rear of the cyclone i think). Never felt the need to change the shock oil on my mini. Although thats probably because i hate building shocks!
Also personally i have never tried the 3 degree rear blocks. I wonder if thats why i have a lot of trouble starting the nights up at windsor till the track starts to change or i get used to the conditions. I think all my cars currently have the standard 1.5.
But the comment bjsinner's is very valid in that it will work the rear tyres harder and generate more heat.
12-08-2010, 04:19 AM
Jason,
I have never ran the 3 degree rear toe blocks anywhere. I'm not sure I even have a pair. I was always running 2 degree rear toe and running the suspension soft front and rear.
I have tried the same tyre combination as yourself, although I also used the grooved Pits on the rear, as well as Cross 30's.
I look forward to racing with you at the Summer Nats. By then I hope to have a new setup for the track. I will assist you if you want it.
Regards,
Calvin.
I have never ran the 3 degree rear toe blocks anywhere. I'm not sure I even have a pair. I was always running 2 degree rear toe and running the suspension soft front and rear.
I have tried the same tyre combination as yourself, although I also used the grooved Pits on the rear, as well as Cross 30's.
I look forward to racing with you at the Summer Nats. By then I hope to have a new setup for the track. I will assist you if you want it.
Regards,
Calvin.
12-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (22)
When you say softer oil do you mean like thinner as in lower number?
I have always associated shock oils with how reactive a shock is not whether they feel harder or softer.
Personally ive always run 40wt shock oil 3 holes. But thats just out of habit because thats what i always ran in my cyclone (maybe sometimes 30wt on the rear of the cyclone i think). Never felt the need to change the shock oil on my mini. Although thats probably because i hate building shocks!
Also personally i have never tried the 3 degree rear blocks. I wonder if thats why i have a lot of trouble starting the nights up at windsor till the track starts to change or i get used to the conditions. I think all my cars currently have the standard 1.5.
But the comment bjsinner's is very valid in that it will work the rear tyres harder and generate more heat.
I have always associated shock oils with how reactive a shock is not whether they feel harder or softer.
Personally ive always run 40wt shock oil 3 holes. But thats just out of habit because thats what i always ran in my cyclone (maybe sometimes 30wt on the rear of the cyclone i think). Never felt the need to change the shock oil on my mini. Although thats probably because i hate building shocks!
Also personally i have never tried the 3 degree rear blocks. I wonder if thats why i have a lot of trouble starting the nights up at windsor till the track starts to change or i get used to the conditions. I think all my cars currently have the standard 1.5.
But the comment bjsinner's is very valid in that it will work the rear tyres harder and generate more heat.
My general shock setup for oils are Losi 25w front 30w rear 3 hole pistons.
If it gets warmer in temp I will increase the oil weight.
12-08-2010, 02:19 PM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (22)
12-08-2010, 02:40 PM
Last 3 weeks 50 grams of weights have come off whilst racing and she now sits at 1397.
12-08-2010, 02:48 PM
My M-05 weighs as follows;
Complete chassis with battery, tires, radio gear, etc = 1193g
Complete chassis with battery, tires, radio gear, body, etc = 1284g
Complete chassis with battery, tires, radio gear, etc = 1193g
Complete chassis with battery, tires, radio gear, body, etc = 1284g
Last edited by SteveM; 12-09-2010 at 03:00 AM.
12-08-2010, 06:09 PM
My M03R weighs 1095 grams,
that is chassis body and lipo battery.
All TCS legal too!!
that is chassis body and lipo battery.
All TCS legal too!!
12-08-2010, 07:55 PM
12-08-2010, 08:12 PM
Tech Elite
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia. Home of rc-mini.net
Posts: 3,549
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So here are all these people proud as punch that their car is knocking on the door of minimum weight limits like it was the most important thing in the world.
Yet Bruces car is a paid-up member at lard-ass central at 1497gms, and he handed Tim and Tony P a solid whupping a fortnight back.
So...still think your car needs to be light to be fast?
Yet Bruces car is a paid-up member at lard-ass central at 1497gms, and he handed Tim and Tony P a solid whupping a fortnight back.
So...still think your car needs to be light to be fast?
12-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Ouch 1497, i assume that is deliberate excess weight?
Ive personally always found that my mini is faster when it is lighter. And only put on weight if i am trying to get rid of traction rolling due to high grip.
But you are probably a much better driver than me!
Ive personally always found that my mini is faster when it is lighter. And only put on weight if i am trying to get rid of traction rolling due to high grip.
But you are probably a much better driver than me!
12-08-2010, 10:37 PM
So here are all these people proud as punch that their car is knocking on the door of minimum weight limits like it was the most important thing in the world.
Yet Bruces car is a paid-up member at lard-ass central at 1497gms, and he handed Tim and Tony P a solid whupping a fortnight back.
So...still think your car needs to be light to be fast?
Yet Bruces car is a paid-up member at lard-ass central at 1497gms, and he handed Tim and Tony P a solid whupping a fortnight back.
So...still think your car needs to be light to be fast?
If its carrying more speed through a corner into a straight any speed lost in top end from being heavier would be made up in the corners? Guess its a win some loose some situation?
On another note,got my new rubber Ride 3035;s on the front and 3027's on the back with spice 5mm hard inserts, has made a huge difference I live in a court and can take a much tighter turn now and really turn in and the end of the turn and the ass stays much more in check now. Just gotta take it for a spin at Boronia now to see if I can steer this thing on a track lol
Rhys
12-08-2010, 11:07 PM
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (22)
The car seems very responsive light but against the clock in practice it was always faster with my mid weight bumper.
As for top speed if you carry more corner speed you are always going to be faster on the straight, 1 metre faster in the corner is 1 metre faster on the straight.
Being front wheel drive traction is the key to acceleration so the weight up front helps in this situation.
12-08-2010, 11:11 PM
I think there are a lot of factors in play. But to me that much excess weight would bog the car down coming out of corners relative to a car which is 150g lighter.
At windsor or ACT (carpet) i have run my car up close to that kind of weight.
But i think you will also find it depends on how you weight your car.
Say putting all that weight in the bumper may help put more weight down on the rear tyres but to me it would also cause the rear end to swing out violently through hard turns.
Also more grip may make a car easier to drive but too much grip is often slower. Generally speaking a fast driver will often want their car to rotate. Such that the rear end is on the edge of letting go.
At windsor or ACT (carpet) i have run my car up close to that kind of weight.
But i think you will also find it depends on how you weight your car.
Say putting all that weight in the bumper may help put more weight down on the rear tyres but to me it would also cause the rear end to swing out violently through hard turns.
Also more grip may make a car easier to drive but too much grip is often slower. Generally speaking a fast driver will often want their car to rotate. Such that the rear end is on the edge of letting go.
12-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Yeah for me with our hobbywing systems it really helped me out because of the fact which i am not smooth through corners so the torque of the hobbywing helps my driving style.
I also use the brakes a lot (which is bad)
I also use the brakes a lot (which is bad)