288LikesTamiya mini cooper
03-22-2006, 05:55 AM
#1382
Originally Posted by racenut
Where can i get a speed tuned gear for MO3??? Does tamiya produced speed tuned gera for Mo3?? or it is an after market parts??? 
03-22-2006, 04:22 PM
#1383
Tech Elite
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how would i got about making a stick pack for my mini?
03-22-2006, 04:26 PM
#1384
Trinity and Eagle sell the stick pack building kit that comes with the stuff needed to build a stick pack. Rcboys sells them. I also heard from a TCS competitor that soldering your cells end to end is the go as it lower the IR. Iam not sure how this can be done
Here's the link: http://www.carttonic.com/catalog/ind...98&pi_id=26461
Here's the link: http://www.carttonic.com/catalog/ind...98&pi_id=26461
03-22-2006, 06:32 PM
#1385
I cut strips of brass when I built my packs for the TCS race. K&S sells little sheets of brass and copper you can use.
Purchased some shrink wrap after soldering everything together and bending the pack, and voila, a cheap stick pack.
Purchased some shrink wrap after soldering everything together and bending the pack, and voila, a cheap stick pack.
03-22-2006, 07:31 PM
#1386
Originally Posted by danjoy25
I also heard from a TCS competitor that soldering your cells end to end is the go as it lower the IR. Iam not sure how this can be done
03-22-2006, 07:49 PM
#1387
Can you please explain the procedure more? I assume once this is done its permanent joint.
Guys,
After abit of searching, check this out http://www.logoheli.com/end2end.htm
and
http://members.cox.net/charliewhite/
Might be beneficial to all Mini drivers.
Guys,
After abit of searching, check this out http://www.logoheli.com/end2end.htm
and
http://members.cox.net/charliewhite/
Might be beneficial to all Mini drivers.
Last edited by danjoy25; 03-22-2006 at 09:05 PM.
03-22-2006, 09:07 PM
#1389
Originally Posted by GKC
I have been building my packs soldering them end to end. Its much easier that using the building kits and the IR is definitely lower. A T-shaped soldering head for the iron is all you need.
http://www.amainobj.com/batt.html
03-23-2006, 08:21 AM
#1390
I have 1
Originally Posted by HotrodHopkins
how would i got about making a stick pack for my mini?
Its a Promatch IB 3800 1.215 to 1.216 for 70.00 I will also give U a 3300 for free ...PM me
03-23-2006, 01:40 PM
#1391
Mini Battery Building/Maintenence Tips - LONG
Good to see that others have now discovered one of the keys to minicooper racing - building your own stick packs. I once did some testing back at the time of 3000 MAH cells. Took a brand new quality "matched" stick pack and ran it through a cycles on T35 to get an average pack voltage. Did this a couple times, over a couple days to get fair readings. Then I disassembled the pack, got rid of the crap metal "battery bars" that were spot welded in, and reassembled the pack using thin relatively pure copper strips I made up. (these strips are the key) Reassembled it just like a normal side by side, then reshaped to a stick pack. Reshrink wrapped the pack and retested. The pack showed an average voltage that was 0.2V higher, lower IR as well. In mini racing, voltage is key. That was like going from 1.15 V cells to 1.18 volt individual cells (6 X .03V = 0.2V pack), and we all know how we will pay premiums for those cells that have just a bit more voltage.
Then I tried the same on some older used stick packs, and it was almost universally true - rebuild the pack from the factory way to the hand built way and you gain about 0.2 V per pack average voltage.
A properly reassembled stick pack should give you numbers on a T35 that are very close to the numbers on the matched cells. That is, average pack voltage should be 6 times the cell voltage, and IR should be close. I have NEVER found a factory built matched stick pack that even comes close to the per cell ratings. Really, it is a crime to see good matched cells assembled is such a poor fashion, they are wasting the "good" cell with crappy assembly.
IMO, the only useful item in the Trinity battery kit might be the tube to hold the batteries, the rest is junk. The end caps no longer fit 3800's, the metal battery strips are relatively non conductive crap, and the tamiya connector, well thats high resistance as well. I just assemble my packs, then use shrink wrap to hold it in stick pack shape. My suggestion, don't bother with the $4.00 for the trinity kit.
For battery "bars" for a stick pack, go to your local stained glass hobby store. They sell thin flexible copper strip in a roll that is meant to be used as reinforcement for long solder joints in larger stained glass projects. (Cascade Metals Re-Strip, 25 feet for $3.10 at our local store, see it at www.cascademetals.com) It is 5/32's inch wide, a roll is 25 feet. Costs about $4 a roll, and you can make tons of battery bars for stick packs from a single roll. Cut it to the length of an ordinary battery bar, assemble your pack in any standard battery jig (I suggest the deans jig, its the best) using these strips in place of the four interior battery bars, but use a standard battery bar of the connection between cells 3 & 4 (which will become one end of the stick pack (this gives the pack needed rigidity). The copper strip is thin and flexible enough that once you assemble the stick pack, you can then set the side by side pack on a flat surface and easily z-bend each strip between bars to form the stick pack shape. I use these in all my hand built stick packs, and believe me it does make a big difference.
Before discovering these copper strips (my wife's hobby is stained glass), I also built my own stick packs using the "solder the cells directly together" method. Made my own T shaped soldering tip, actually, old weller iron that had a screw on tip, removed the tip and replaced it with a hex nut - voila, a tip that you could place between the cells, heat both up at the same time, pull the tip out and slam the cells together as fast as you can before the solder has a chance to cool. While this may work just as well pack voltage wise when you do it right, it is far harder to do then the method I described above. The T tip solder method risks cold solder joints (which suck for voltage as well as strength) and you can unnecessarily heat up the cells in trying to get both up to temp enough to slam them together when the solder is still molten.
For those who are routinely building your own packs, you can also do yourself a favor while you are at the stained glass store picking up your copper strip. Buy yourself a quality 80 watt soldering iton with a big flat tip. The good ones cost about $40 - 50 bucks, but are well built and well worth it. Use it just for battery assembly. A proper iron like this is able to heat up the battery end surface very quickly, minimizing any damage to the cell from heat build up. Too small an iron causes the rest of the cell to heat up too much by the time the end is hot enough to melt the solder properly. A properly assembeld battery pack should require no more than 1 second to solder the bar to each end of the cell, and you can't do that with a 40 watt iron.
Tip #2: Once you build your own matched stick pack, keep it matched. We all know about the importance of equalizing your stick packs to keep them healthy. But do you do the same for your stick pack? Most of us don't, but I do. How?
To do it you need the following: a Novak smart tray (others will work, this one is just easy and good), four regular battery bars, and seven wire leads with good alligator clips (radio shack). Take your reassembled stick pack from above, and on one side cut narrow slots about 3/8" (the width of a battery bar) in the shrink wrap at the point where the cells come together. After you have discharged your pack down to 5.4 volts (bulbs, T35, whatever) lay the pack down on a table, insert a loose battery bar into each of the four slots you have created, establishing an electrical connection between the copper z strip and the battery bar. Then use the wire leads to connect the battery bar to the appropriate place on the Novak smart tray. (It is important that you connect the wires to their proper place on the tray, use the drawing on the Novak tray to make sure you are going to the equivilent place for a stick pack) Connect a lead from the stick pack end to the middle connection on the Novak tray. Connect leads from the positive and negative pack end to the positive and negative ends of the Novak tray.
Now what you have looks a bit "Frankenstein-ish", wires seem to be everywhere, but what you have done is made all the same connections for this stick pack that you would have when you would tray your side by side pack. Start the equalizing tray, and voila - your stick packs remain matched. I have seen others make a plexiglass setup with permanently placed bars that fit in the slots I describe so that you can more simply "tray" a stick pack. The problem with that method is that with individual cell size changing subtly from 3000 to 3700s to 3800s and now to 4200s, the slots don't alway line up right when you go to the next generation of cells.
I think these tips were a help for me to be the 2003 TCS Nationals Minii champion.
Then I tried the same on some older used stick packs, and it was almost universally true - rebuild the pack from the factory way to the hand built way and you gain about 0.2 V per pack average voltage.
A properly reassembled stick pack should give you numbers on a T35 that are very close to the numbers on the matched cells. That is, average pack voltage should be 6 times the cell voltage, and IR should be close. I have NEVER found a factory built matched stick pack that even comes close to the per cell ratings. Really, it is a crime to see good matched cells assembled is such a poor fashion, they are wasting the "good" cell with crappy assembly.
IMO, the only useful item in the Trinity battery kit might be the tube to hold the batteries, the rest is junk. The end caps no longer fit 3800's, the metal battery strips are relatively non conductive crap, and the tamiya connector, well thats high resistance as well. I just assemble my packs, then use shrink wrap to hold it in stick pack shape. My suggestion, don't bother with the $4.00 for the trinity kit.
For battery "bars" for a stick pack, go to your local stained glass hobby store. They sell thin flexible copper strip in a roll that is meant to be used as reinforcement for long solder joints in larger stained glass projects. (Cascade Metals Re-Strip, 25 feet for $3.10 at our local store, see it at www.cascademetals.com) It is 5/32's inch wide, a roll is 25 feet. Costs about $4 a roll, and you can make tons of battery bars for stick packs from a single roll. Cut it to the length of an ordinary battery bar, assemble your pack in any standard battery jig (I suggest the deans jig, its the best) using these strips in place of the four interior battery bars, but use a standard battery bar of the connection between cells 3 & 4 (which will become one end of the stick pack (this gives the pack needed rigidity). The copper strip is thin and flexible enough that once you assemble the stick pack, you can then set the side by side pack on a flat surface and easily z-bend each strip between bars to form the stick pack shape. I use these in all my hand built stick packs, and believe me it does make a big difference.
Before discovering these copper strips (my wife's hobby is stained glass), I also built my own stick packs using the "solder the cells directly together" method. Made my own T shaped soldering tip, actually, old weller iron that had a screw on tip, removed the tip and replaced it with a hex nut - voila, a tip that you could place between the cells, heat both up at the same time, pull the tip out and slam the cells together as fast as you can before the solder has a chance to cool. While this may work just as well pack voltage wise when you do it right, it is far harder to do then the method I described above. The T tip solder method risks cold solder joints (which suck for voltage as well as strength) and you can unnecessarily heat up the cells in trying to get both up to temp enough to slam them together when the solder is still molten.
For those who are routinely building your own packs, you can also do yourself a favor while you are at the stained glass store picking up your copper strip. Buy yourself a quality 80 watt soldering iton with a big flat tip. The good ones cost about $40 - 50 bucks, but are well built and well worth it. Use it just for battery assembly. A proper iron like this is able to heat up the battery end surface very quickly, minimizing any damage to the cell from heat build up. Too small an iron causes the rest of the cell to heat up too much by the time the end is hot enough to melt the solder properly. A properly assembeld battery pack should require no more than 1 second to solder the bar to each end of the cell, and you can't do that with a 40 watt iron.
Tip #2: Once you build your own matched stick pack, keep it matched. We all know about the importance of equalizing your stick packs to keep them healthy. But do you do the same for your stick pack? Most of us don't, but I do. How?
To do it you need the following: a Novak smart tray (others will work, this one is just easy and good), four regular battery bars, and seven wire leads with good alligator clips (radio shack). Take your reassembled stick pack from above, and on one side cut narrow slots about 3/8" (the width of a battery bar) in the shrink wrap at the point where the cells come together. After you have discharged your pack down to 5.4 volts (bulbs, T35, whatever) lay the pack down on a table, insert a loose battery bar into each of the four slots you have created, establishing an electrical connection between the copper z strip and the battery bar. Then use the wire leads to connect the battery bar to the appropriate place on the Novak smart tray. (It is important that you connect the wires to their proper place on the tray, use the drawing on the Novak tray to make sure you are going to the equivilent place for a stick pack) Connect a lead from the stick pack end to the middle connection on the Novak tray. Connect leads from the positive and negative pack end to the positive and negative ends of the Novak tray.
Now what you have looks a bit "Frankenstein-ish", wires seem to be everywhere, but what you have done is made all the same connections for this stick pack that you would have when you would tray your side by side pack. Start the equalizing tray, and voila - your stick packs remain matched. I have seen others make a plexiglass setup with permanently placed bars that fit in the slots I describe so that you can more simply "tray" a stick pack. The problem with that method is that with individual cell size changing subtly from 3000 to 3700s to 3800s and now to 4200s, the slots don't alway line up right when you go to the next generation of cells.
I think these tips were a help for me to be the 2003 TCS Nationals Minii champion.
Last edited by minidriver; 03-23-2006 at 02:00 PM.
03-23-2006, 02:56 PM
#1392
Thanks for all the tips guys. What about diffs? Gears or Balls??
03-23-2006, 03:24 PM
#1393
Where do you get the thin strips of metal to connect the batts in stick packs? When I make my stick packs they are a few mm longer than usual because of the solder I have to place on - and + on the batt ends so they have good connection. Any better way to make em?
03-23-2006, 06:08 PM
#1394
Tech Champion
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Peoples Republic of Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,682
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Originally Posted by danjoy25
Thanks for all the tips guys. What about diffs? Gears or Balls??
03-23-2006, 11:57 PM
#1395
Originally Posted by minidriver
Good to see that others have now discovered one of the keys to minicooper racing - building your own stick packs. I once did some testing back at the time of 3000 MAH cells. Took a brand new quality "matched" stick pack and ran it through a cycles on T35 to get an average pack voltage. Did this a couple times, over a couple days to get fair readings. Then I disassembled the pack, got rid of the crap metal "battery bars" that were spot welded in, and reassembled the pack using thin relatively pure copper strips I made up. (these strips are the key) Reassembled it just like a normal side by side, then reshaped to a stick pack. Reshrink wrapped the pack and retested. The pack showed an average voltage that was 0.2V higher, lower IR as well. In mini racing, voltage is key. That was like going from 1.15 V cells to 1.18 volt individual cells (6 X .03V = 0.2V pack), and we all know how we will pay premiums for those cells that have just a bit more voltage.
Then I tried the same on some older used stick packs, and it was almost universally true - rebuild the pack from the factory way to the hand built way and you gain about 0.2 V per pack average voltage.
A properly reassembled stick pack should give you numbers on a T35 that are very close to the numbers on the matched cells. That is, average pack voltage should be 6 times the cell voltage, and IR should be close. I have NEVER found a factory built matched stick pack that even comes close to the per cell ratings. Really, it is a crime to see good matched cells assembled is such a poor fashion, they are wasting the "good" cell with crappy assembly.
IMO, the only useful item in the Trinity battery kit might be the tube to hold the batteries, the rest is junk. The end caps no longer fit 3800's, the metal battery strips are relatively non conductive crap, and the tamiya connector, well thats high resistance as well. I just assemble my packs, then use shrink wrap to hold it in stick pack shape. My suggestion, don't bother with the $4.00 for the trinity kit.
For battery "bars" for a stick pack, go to your local stained glass hobby store. They sell thin flexible copper strip in a roll that is meant to be used as reinforcement for long solder joints in larger stained glass projects. (Cascade Metals Re-Strip, 25 feet for $3.10 at our local store, see it at www.cascademetals.com) It is 5/32's inch wide, a roll is 25 feet. Costs about $4 a roll, and you can make tons of battery bars for stick packs from a single roll. Cut it to the length of an ordinary battery bar, assemble your pack in any standard battery jig (I suggest the deans jig, its the best) using these strips in place of the four interior battery bars, but use a standard battery bar of the connection between cells 3 & 4 (which will become one end of the stick pack (this gives the pack needed rigidity). The copper strip is thin and flexible enough that once you assemble the stick pack, you can then set the side by side pack on a flat surface and easily z-bend each strip between bars to form the stick pack shape. I use these in all my hand built stick packs, and believe me it does make a big difference.
Before discovering these copper strips (my wife's hobby is stained glass), I also built my own stick packs using the "solder the cells directly together" method. Made my own T shaped soldering tip, actually, old weller iron that had a screw on tip, removed the tip and replaced it with a hex nut - voila, a tip that you could place between the cells, heat both up at the same time, pull the tip out and slam the cells together as fast as you can before the solder has a chance to cool. While this may work just as well pack voltage wise when you do it right, it is far harder to do then the method I described above. The T tip solder method risks cold solder joints (which suck for voltage as well as strength) and you can unnecessarily heat up the cells in trying to get both up to temp enough to slam them together when the solder is still molten.
For those who are routinely building your own packs, you can also do yourself a favor while you are at the stained glass store picking up your copper strip. Buy yourself a quality 80 watt soldering iton with a big flat tip. The good ones cost about $40 - 50 bucks, but are well built and well worth it. Use it just for battery assembly. A proper iron like this is able to heat up the battery end surface very quickly, minimizing any damage to the cell from heat build up. Too small an iron causes the rest of the cell to heat up too much by the time the end is hot enough to melt the solder properly. A properly assembeld battery pack should require no more than 1 second to solder the bar to each end of the cell, and you can't do that with a 40 watt iron.
Tip #2: Once you build your own matched stick pack, keep it matched. We all know about the importance of equalizing your stick packs to keep them healthy. But do you do the same for your stick pack? Most of us don't, but I do. How?
To do it you need the following: a Novak smart tray (others will work, this one is just easy and good), four regular battery bars, and seven wire leads with good alligator clips (radio shack). Take your reassembled stick pack from above, and on one side cut narrow slots about 3/8" (the width of a battery bar) in the shrink wrap at the point where the cells come together. After you have discharged your pack down to 5.4 volts (bulbs, T35, whatever) lay the pack down on a table, insert a loose battery bar into each of the four slots you have created, establishing an electrical connection between the copper z strip and the battery bar. Then use the wire leads to connect the battery bar to the appropriate place on the Novak smart tray. (It is important that you connect the wires to their proper place on the tray, use the drawing on the Novak tray to make sure you are going to the equivilent place for a stick pack) Connect a lead from the stick pack end to the middle connection on the Novak tray. Connect leads from the positive and negative pack end to the positive and negative ends of the Novak tray.
Now what you have looks a bit "Frankenstein-ish", wires seem to be everywhere, but what you have done is made all the same connections for this stick pack that you would have when you would tray your side by side pack. Start the equalizing tray, and voila - your stick packs remain matched. I have seen others make a plexiglass setup with permanently placed bars that fit in the slots I describe so that you can more simply "tray" a stick pack. The problem with that method is that with individual cell size changing subtly from 3000 to 3700s to 3800s and now to 4200s, the slots don't alway line up right when you go to the next generation of cells.
I think these tips were a help for me to be the 2003 TCS Nationals Minii champion.
Then I tried the same on some older used stick packs, and it was almost universally true - rebuild the pack from the factory way to the hand built way and you gain about 0.2 V per pack average voltage.
A properly reassembled stick pack should give you numbers on a T35 that are very close to the numbers on the matched cells. That is, average pack voltage should be 6 times the cell voltage, and IR should be close. I have NEVER found a factory built matched stick pack that even comes close to the per cell ratings. Really, it is a crime to see good matched cells assembled is such a poor fashion, they are wasting the "good" cell with crappy assembly.
IMO, the only useful item in the Trinity battery kit might be the tube to hold the batteries, the rest is junk. The end caps no longer fit 3800's, the metal battery strips are relatively non conductive crap, and the tamiya connector, well thats high resistance as well. I just assemble my packs, then use shrink wrap to hold it in stick pack shape. My suggestion, don't bother with the $4.00 for the trinity kit.
For battery "bars" for a stick pack, go to your local stained glass hobby store. They sell thin flexible copper strip in a roll that is meant to be used as reinforcement for long solder joints in larger stained glass projects. (Cascade Metals Re-Strip, 25 feet for $3.10 at our local store, see it at www.cascademetals.com) It is 5/32's inch wide, a roll is 25 feet. Costs about $4 a roll, and you can make tons of battery bars for stick packs from a single roll. Cut it to the length of an ordinary battery bar, assemble your pack in any standard battery jig (I suggest the deans jig, its the best) using these strips in place of the four interior battery bars, but use a standard battery bar of the connection between cells 3 & 4 (which will become one end of the stick pack (this gives the pack needed rigidity). The copper strip is thin and flexible enough that once you assemble the stick pack, you can then set the side by side pack on a flat surface and easily z-bend each strip between bars to form the stick pack shape. I use these in all my hand built stick packs, and believe me it does make a big difference.
Before discovering these copper strips (my wife's hobby is stained glass), I also built my own stick packs using the "solder the cells directly together" method. Made my own T shaped soldering tip, actually, old weller iron that had a screw on tip, removed the tip and replaced it with a hex nut - voila, a tip that you could place between the cells, heat both up at the same time, pull the tip out and slam the cells together as fast as you can before the solder has a chance to cool. While this may work just as well pack voltage wise when you do it right, it is far harder to do then the method I described above. The T tip solder method risks cold solder joints (which suck for voltage as well as strength) and you can unnecessarily heat up the cells in trying to get both up to temp enough to slam them together when the solder is still molten.
For those who are routinely building your own packs, you can also do yourself a favor while you are at the stained glass store picking up your copper strip. Buy yourself a quality 80 watt soldering iton with a big flat tip. The good ones cost about $40 - 50 bucks, but are well built and well worth it. Use it just for battery assembly. A proper iron like this is able to heat up the battery end surface very quickly, minimizing any damage to the cell from heat build up. Too small an iron causes the rest of the cell to heat up too much by the time the end is hot enough to melt the solder properly. A properly assembeld battery pack should require no more than 1 second to solder the bar to each end of the cell, and you can't do that with a 40 watt iron.
Tip #2: Once you build your own matched stick pack, keep it matched. We all know about the importance of equalizing your stick packs to keep them healthy. But do you do the same for your stick pack? Most of us don't, but I do. How?
To do it you need the following: a Novak smart tray (others will work, this one is just easy and good), four regular battery bars, and seven wire leads with good alligator clips (radio shack). Take your reassembled stick pack from above, and on one side cut narrow slots about 3/8" (the width of a battery bar) in the shrink wrap at the point where the cells come together. After you have discharged your pack down to 5.4 volts (bulbs, T35, whatever) lay the pack down on a table, insert a loose battery bar into each of the four slots you have created, establishing an electrical connection between the copper z strip and the battery bar. Then use the wire leads to connect the battery bar to the appropriate place on the Novak smart tray. (It is important that you connect the wires to their proper place on the tray, use the drawing on the Novak tray to make sure you are going to the equivilent place for a stick pack) Connect a lead from the stick pack end to the middle connection on the Novak tray. Connect leads from the positive and negative pack end to the positive and negative ends of the Novak tray.
Now what you have looks a bit "Frankenstein-ish", wires seem to be everywhere, but what you have done is made all the same connections for this stick pack that you would have when you would tray your side by side pack. Start the equalizing tray, and voila - your stick packs remain matched. I have seen others make a plexiglass setup with permanently placed bars that fit in the slots I describe so that you can more simply "tray" a stick pack. The problem with that method is that with individual cell size changing subtly from 3000 to 3700s to 3800s and now to 4200s, the slots don't alway line up right when you go to the next generation of cells.
I think these tips were a help for me to be the 2003 TCS Nationals Minii champion.
WOW!!! now thats what i call "TIP"!!!