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Tamiya mini cooper

Old 07-13-2015, 10:27 AM
  #24601  
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Originally Posted by Granpa
No, actually if you follow this procedure, you will have a Mini that will have unequal turning radiuses. The procedure I posted is the correct one.
Procedures are not unique. Fundamental principles are (that's why they're fundamental).
Once the fundamental principles are understood such that the desired outcome can be clearly derived, everybody can develop their own way of achieving it.
Much longer lasting effects if you explain that.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:34 AM
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I appreciate the technicality of these fundamental principals and procedures, but we are talking about an RC car with the simple goal of making it turn the same radius left and right.

Do we really need to get into technical jargon just for a simple goal?
Maybe I'm just not nerdy enough... moneyracing, please advise!

Where do I stand on the nerd scale?
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:38 AM
  #24603  
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Originally Posted by sakadachi
No argument needed. Mine is off a little, but I am not using the entire swing range of the servo so the turn radius for the car is the same left and right.

If the full servo swing range is required, I too would need to perfect the alignment. But in such case I will still want to have some margin in the swing, so I would use a longer servo arm and electronically limit the swing via EPA, resulting in the same turn radius let and right.
Yeah, but using a longer servo arm you give away some torque and precision to gain longer throw as you mention, at the wheels. Conversely, using a shorter servo arm, you gain torque and precision but give away linear throw.

Neither is ideal.

For a mini, perhaps you can work a compromise easier. Racing TC, I wouldn't give away either torque or precision. And this is how we arrive at the discussion about servos. A good one will require a very small compromise on anything if at all.
Again, for a mini these requirements are substantially different to a TC hence the lower cost.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sakadachi
For you M05 guru's.. please let me know how you balanced the weight of the chassis left to right.
I didn't bother. I didn't want to add weight since my car was right at minimum, and sliding the battery sideways made the body bulge out.

Since it is unbalanced, the tweak board is kind of useless. I just set the rear shock collars to get the handling the same for left and right.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sakadachi
Where do I stand on the nerd scale?
That's the problem, you're not standing on it. It's on your head.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by niznai
Yeah, but using a longer servo arm you give away some torque and precision to gain longer throw as you mention, at the wheels. Conversely, using a shorter servo arm, you gain torque and precision but give away linear throw.

Neither is ideal.

For a mini, perhaps you can work a compromise easier. Racing TC, I wouldn't give away either torque or precision. And this is how we arrive at the discussion about servos. A good one will require a very small compromise on anything if at all.
Again, for a mini these requirements are substantially different to a TC hence the lower cost.
Yes, I understand that there is a give and take. The amount gained outweighs the amount lost, so in this case it is a viable option, well for me at least. Also another reason why I always say to buy the best servo one can afford to maximize margin and trim the limits electronically.

I agree that the most ideal way is to have it perfectly aligned, no argument there.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by howardcano
I didn't bother. I didn't want to add weight since my car was right at minimum, and sliding the battery sideways made the body bulge out.

Since it is unbalanced, the tweak board is kind of useless. I just set the rear shock collars to get the handling the same for left and right.
Thanks, howard. I too played with the damper heights and slightly shifted the battery without bulging. Car tracks pretty much straight with a tad toe out, but still not balanced while turning. Car tends to turn to the right faster than to the left. Trying to electronically compensate for this, but would rather do this mechanically.

Originally Posted by monkeyracing
That's the problem, you're not standing on it. It's on your head.
Crap!
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sakadachi
I appreciate the technicality of these fundamental principals and procedures, but we are talking about an RC car with the simple goal of making it turn the same radius left and right.

Do we really need to get into technical jargon just for a simple goal?
Maybe I'm just not nerdy enough... moneyracing, please advise!

Where do I stand on the nerd scale?
Thats not it. It's when you post something that's fundamentally wrong. I don't know what your motivation for posting on this thread is, but mine is to help some of the newer guys get a fundamentally good start in this hobby of Mini racing. Sure guys like you who have a lot of experience can do stuff that the more inexperienced cannot. Here's something I've learned from the experience of trying to help out maybe hundreds of guys at the track. The simpler you can make things, the more quickly they progress.

The first thing you really have to have is a "square" car. You want a car that is mechanically set up. Yes, I understand that you can use your radio to square up a car, but every really good racer I know, starts out with a good mechanical set up then works from there. Also I've found over the years that people learn at their own rates and force feeding them info gets you nowhere. Quite often they aren't ready for the info yet and will not process it properly or in one ear and out the other.

I'm also on this thread cause I learn a lot. There are certain people who post here that always have a contribution. It's always fun to read the posts of guys who started out with me and of others who I might have helped a bit when they got started.

I get myself in trouble with you, cause I'll give my input if there is something fundamentally wrong with your advice -----in my opinion. I've found you don't like this and have taken it personally and have been quite nasty about it at times. I don't deal in personalities, for the most part, but with ideas, techniques, etc. I went to a personal level with you once and for that I'm quite ashamed of myself and do apologize to you and to the guys who might have read those exchanges.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:00 PM
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Sorry, missed about a week of RCTech fun, ...but just want to say that I benefit from all of the input on these forums. Granpa and Sakadachi ...you guys have both provided a ton of great info which has helped me immensely.

-------
Back to our Mini's:

For you M05 guru's.. please let me know how you balanced the weight of the chassis left to right.
Are you referring to the M05? For the M05VII I use a shorty pack mounted offset slightly opposite of the motor. That is I have the battery stick out about 1/4" the same as the motor sticks out on the opposite side. ESC and Receiver I mount on end so they are mounted vertically not flat per the instructions. I do this to keep the weight closer to center. Otherwise that is it for balancing for me.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:05 PM
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Raced yesterday w/ our club. We had a Tamiya mini competitor join us (he's competed in TCS Mini events at the LA track). I've raced with him in the past, super great guy. I feel my Mini is dialed in ...or at least on a scale of 1-1000 it dialed in to about a 950 it's pretty much there. His is just a tad more dialed in though, for example he showed me how his rear tires could spin for like 1/2 a minute when spun w/ his hand. ...he spun his tires and they just kept going. I believe I may have a tad bit too much friction, as my tires do not spin quite like that.

Is there a specific bearing that is preferred for the rear tires (and internal gears)? Is there some trick to get the wheels to spin for a long long time and remove most friction? I don't use any grease on my internal gears ...just a very light spray of thin silicone oil. -is that bad??
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpa
Thats not it. It's when you post something that's fundamentally wrong. I don't know what your motivation for posting on this thread is, but mine is to help some of the newer guys get a fundamentally good start in this hobby of Mini racing. Sure guys like you who have a lot of experience can do stuff that the more inexperienced cannot. Here's something I've learned from the experience of trying to help out maybe hundreds of guys at the track. The simpler you can make things, the more quickly they progress.

The first thing you really have to have is a "square" car. You want a car that is mechanically set up. Yes, I understand that you can use your radio to square up a car, but every really good racer I know, starts out with a good mechanical set up then works from there. Also I've found over the years that people learn at their own rates and force feeding them info gets you nowhere. Quite often they aren't ready for the info yet and will not process it properly or in one ear and out the other.

I'm also on this thread cause I learn a lot. There are certain people who post here that always have a contribution. It's always fun to read the posts of guys who started out with me and of others who I might have helped a bit when they got started.

I get myself in trouble with you, cause I'll give my input if there is something fundamentally wrong with your advice -----in my opinion. I've found you don't like this and have taken it personally and have been quite nasty about it at times. I don't deal in personalities, for the most part, but with ideas, techniques, etc. I went to a personal level with you once and for that I'm quite ashamed of myself and do apologize to you and to the guys who might have read those exchanges.
Unfortunately the servo splines and how they align to the servo prevents this. I can't remember the last time the horn perfectly lined up to my servo 90 degrees. So already the setup is not perfectly square. I don't prefer it, it's just the way it is and it is not a big deal as it can be compensated elsewhere (sub trim and EPA).

Apology is accepted and I don't plan on arguing with you either. It's been the 'I'm better than you because I race at a Tamiya track and you only play in your little toy track' attitude that I got me ticked off at times. I do envy that you are near Tamiya's track and I think that's great. But you're forgetting that I too have thousands of hours experience racing TC and M03's, maybe not TCS and while I may not be fully up to date with the current electronics due to my long hiatus, I do understand how RC cars and trucks work, how demanding racing is on your car, the driver, and even the driver's spouses.

My experience says that these minor imperfections is not something that will make or break your race especially when the goal is achieved another way. Plus, we're not talking about a huge mis-alignment in degrees here, well within the tolerance of the steering system. It's not a big deal.

But then I do agree a newbie may not know what is considered a 'big deal' and what is not. That area I need to be careful on my posts. Like me not gluing my tires on the inside lip on some of my tires. Experience tells me which tires will not grip well enough to come apart from the wheels in certain driving conditions, but a newbie may not know what that threshold is.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by eR1c
Sorry, missed about a week of RCTech fun, ...but just want to say that I benefit from all of the input on these forums. Granpa and Sakadachi ...you guys have both provided a ton of great info which has helped me immensely.

-------
Back to our Mini's:

Are you referring to the M05? For the M05VII I use a shorty pack mounted offset slightly opposite of the motor. That is I have the battery stick out about 1/4" the same as the motor sticks out on the opposite side. ESC and Receiver I mount on end so they are mounted vertically not flat per the instructions. I do this to keep the weight closer to center. Otherwise that is it for balancing for me.
Thanks eR1c. Actually I want to thank you too for kick-starting my post- hiatus RC hobby because I was completely lost when I got back on here.

Yes, I am referring to my M05. I have no issue with the V2's balance, but trying to perfect my M05 a bit more. It is a tricky chassis as it is fundamentally off balance that I can actually tell while turning.

Originally Posted by eR1c
Raced yesterday w/ our club. We had a Tamiya mini competitor join us (he's competed in TCS Mini events at the LA track). I've raced with him in the past, super great guy. I feel my Mini is dialed in ...or at least on a scale of 1-1000 it dialed in to about a 950 it's pretty much there. His is just a tad more dialed in though, for example he showed me how his rear tires could spin for like 1/2 a minute when spun w/ his hand. ...he spun his tires and they just kept going. I believe I may have a tad bit too much friction, as my tires do not spin quite like that.

Is there a specific bearing that is preferred for the rear tires (and internal gears)? Is there some trick to get the wheels to spin for a long long time and remove most friction? I don't use any grease on my internal gears ...just a very light spray of thin silicone oil. -is that bad??
Sounds great that you had fun at your club and being able to race with a TCS driver. I had the privilege of driving against an HPI and Yokomo team drivers back in the day. Needless to say, they smoked all our local's butts.

As for bearings, I am using the Tamiya bearings that came with the V2 kit. I don't know how much better it is or not vs my Duratrax bearings but they feel much smoother.

As for bearing maintenance, most often than not, I just replace with new. I usually can't get all the grit out and even if I did, the balls feel worn inside so just replace them all together when they feel too loose, too dry (hard to explain), or grinding feel.

I've seen and read about bearing maintenance, soaking them in motor spray what not. May sound ironic as I reuse wheels in good condition, but bearings is something I don't usually reuse if they don't feel right. I just toss them.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:39 PM
  #24613  
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Originally Posted by eR1c
Raced yesterday w/ our club. We had a Tamiya mini competitor join us (he's competed in TCS Mini events at the LA track). I've raced with him in the past, super great guy. I feel my Mini is dialed in ...or at least on a scale of 1-1000 it dialed in to about a 950 it's pretty much there. His is just a tad more dialed in though, for example he showed me how his rear tires could spin for like 1/2 a minute when spun w/ his hand. ...he spun his tires and they just kept going. I believe I may have a tad bit too much friction, as my tires do not spin quite like that.

Is there a specific bearing that is preferred for the rear tires (and internal gears)? Is there some trick to get the wheels to spin for a long long time and remove most friction? I don't use any grease on my internal gears ...just a very light spray of thin silicone oil. -is that bad??
For low drag, a high grade metal shielded bearing is in most, let me repeat, in most cases the best. i believe that it wasn't in the bearings tho. Probably more in the detail and a set up item than just the bearings.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:41 PM
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Sounds great that you had fun at your club and being able to race with a TCS driver. I had the privilege of driving against an HPI and Yokomo team drivers back in the day. Needless to say, they smoked all our local's butts.

As for bearings, I am using the Tamiya bearings that came with the V2 kit. I don't know how much better it is or not vs my Duratrax bearings but they feel much smoother.

As for bearing maintenance, most often than not, I just replace with new. I usually can't get all the grit out and even if I did, the balls feel worn inside so just replace them all together when they feel too loose, too dry (hard to explain), or grinding feel.

I've seen and read about bearing maintenance, soaking them in motor spray what not. May sound ironic as I reuse wheels in good condition, but bearings is something I don't usually reuse if they don't feel right. I just toss them.
For low drag, a high grade metal shielded bearing is in most, let me repeat, in most cases the best. i believe that it wasn't in the bearings tho. Probably more in the detail and a set up item than just the bearings.
Thanks guys,
this is helpful. To be honest I haven't checked my bearings in about 3 or 4 days of racing (that is a lot of use on them) ...embarrassed to admit.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eR1c
Thanks guys,
this is helpful. To be honest I haven't checked my bearings in about 3 or 4 days of racing (that is a lot of use on them) ...embarrassed to admit.
Yeah, I'm with Granpa on the bearings. The metal ones are my preference too.
You'd think bearings are just bearings, but the Tamiya' bearings (metal) are so much smoother.

The nylon sealed ones aren't bad either though. As long as it's smooth, either will do just fine, I think. The person showing your bearings that spins freely for ages... might be just a worn bearing with slick bearing oil inside.
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