288LikesTamiya mini cooper
06-14-2015, 09:23 AM
Anyway, I'd like to thank the global popularity of yoga for making so much foam so readily and cheaply available absolutely everywhere. I picked up this block of high density foam for almost nothing tonight. Fired up the foam cutter and have started building bumper blanks!
Pretty awesome what you can do with leftover stuff from the junk pile!
Pretty awesome what you can do with leftover stuff from the junk pile!
Nice foam cutting, monkeyracing!! I didn't even think yoga mats for bumper foam! Interesting advise 
I should get some to make barriers for my track.
06-14-2015, 09:35 AM
Hi Mini Racers,
I don't often post - just a lurker - but a few posts here lately have peaked my interest.
Saka: This left/right, on/off tracking is imperative to go fast. My eyeball measurements on the bench are never very good! I spend a lot of time in our track's staging area messing with the transmitter before even taking a lap. Left/right, throw, expo, servo speed if you've got it, use those adjustments. Once set for the tires and track, only little changes might be needed during the day. I cringe, and note who to avoid, when I see a Mini struggling to go straight!
Cal: Are you sure your chassis has never come into contact with bad chemicals? Brake cleaner instead of electric motor cleaner? Maybe goofy tire sauce? I've been racing Minis almost as long as Grandpa, and have never seen such a thing unless chemicals were involved. Of course, all my parts are so old, I haven't yet experienced "outsourced" parts.
So, now what about F/R hinge pin lower shock mounts? Orlando is our fastest Mini guy right now (except for Chuck, who is such a stud he misses mains just because he wants someone new to win) and I've seen it on his car. When I tried them, car handled like poo. What have you guys found?
I don't often post - just a lurker - but a few posts here lately have peaked my interest.
Saka: This left/right, on/off tracking is imperative to go fast. My eyeball measurements on the bench are never very good! I spend a lot of time in our track's staging area messing with the transmitter before even taking a lap. Left/right, throw, expo, servo speed if you've got it, use those adjustments. Once set for the tires and track, only little changes might be needed during the day. I cringe, and note who to avoid, when I see a Mini struggling to go straight!
Cal: Are you sure your chassis has never come into contact with bad chemicals? Brake cleaner instead of electric motor cleaner? Maybe goofy tire sauce? I've been racing Minis almost as long as Grandpa, and have never seen such a thing unless chemicals were involved. Of course, all my parts are so old, I haven't yet experienced "outsourced" parts.
So, now what about F/R hinge pin lower shock mounts? Orlando is our fastest Mini guy right now (except for Chuck, who is such a stud he misses mains just because he wants someone new to win) and I've seen it on his car. When I tried them, car handled like poo. What have you guys found?
I threw a set up on with just an "eyeball" or guess and the car just absolutely locked in. I could not get the car to spin. I used the rear shock mount and the M06 hinge pins and longer shocks and one of the outer holes on the option rear shock tower. It seemed more stable than using the stock mounting on the suspension arm, but ran out of time before i could run comparison lap time tests. I think this is a valid area of exploration. I'll be out at the track in a couple of weeks so we can discuss further.
To 3219toon, the above was the second part to my answer to your query.
06-14-2015, 10:36 AM
I made some home-made curbs yesterday using cable duct I bought at HomeDepot.
Was trying to see if I can make something instead of spending like $200 on
Tetsujin Kerbs.
I wish HomeDepot had the cream/tan color ones; they only had gray and black.
Going to clean up the shelf leg cardboard (left side of image) later today.
Was trying to see if I can make something instead of spending like $200 on
Tetsujin Kerbs.
I wish HomeDepot had the cream/tan color ones; they only had gray and black.
Going to clean up the shelf leg cardboard (left side of image) later today.
06-14-2015, 11:12 AM
Agreed, spreading the front shocks no workee, for me at least. Erratic steering = grab and release. Too much shock travel I think, even with light springs and oil.
A few weeks ago Saturday morning the rear of car was slipping out, so stood rear shocks out wide and almost vertical (a bit longer too, to maintain some droop) = LOCKED that rear end down. Next battery pack an hour later, all it would do is traction roll! What happened? I hate traction rolls...except for wide-open into cement walls, traction rolls are the most violent and destructive and ruin my wife's beautiful paint jobs! The track surface at Tamiya Raceway has deteriorated so much lately, that I think our little Mini tires are catching in the "pot holes", and over ya go...
A few weeks ago Saturday morning the rear of car was slipping out, so stood rear shocks out wide and almost vertical (a bit longer too, to maintain some droop) = LOCKED that rear end down. Next battery pack an hour later, all it would do is traction roll! What happened? I hate traction rolls...except for wide-open into cement walls, traction rolls are the most violent and destructive and ruin my wife's beautiful paint jobs! The track surface at Tamiya Raceway has deteriorated so much lately, that I think our little Mini tires are catching in the "pot holes", and over ya go...
06-14-2015, 12:54 PM
Was it warmer during the 2nd run? Tricky outdoor racing playing with tires.
Oh wait you're restricted to the premounts, huh?
Oh wait you're restricted to the premounts, huh?
06-14-2015, 05:53 PM
06-14-2015, 06:03 PM
Indeed. That is one slippery slope to clear with just suspension and driving especially if one's car is traction rolling!
Use a metal coat hanger for stabilizer. 
Use a metal coat hanger for stabilizer.
06-14-2015, 06:40 PM
Tried that...
06-14-2015, 11:16 PM
Wow, that bad, huh.
In all seriousness though, you need to figure out where the traction roll occurs. If it's on turn in and violent, it's the front. If it's after turn , but before the apex, it's both or one or the other. Anything after that is the rear.
It doesn't occur often, but if it's the rear, it's usually a camber or ride height deal. Not a big deal, cause you want to free up the back end and give up some of the rear grip you just found. You'll probably run much faster laps, but I just don't have any test data to back up that assertion.
If it's after corner entry, here again not a super big deal. It's just adjusting out till you give up some grip on either the front or the rear. Whichever is the problem end.
If it's on corner entry, this is the, oh crap, traction roll. The reason you weren't traction rolling before was that the car was snap oversteering. When you picked up rear grip, that led to the traction roll, cause when you gave it the steering input the back end stayed there and the car tripped over the front. So, there are two basic approaches to the problem. Both of them, require you to give up some "grip" and free the car up.
Craig, I know you know this stuff, cause of lot of the knowledge came from you. But for the others, who may be interested, when you are trying to get rid of some steering, you work on the back end of the car. These give you smaller increments of change and you don't lose much of the steering. These are the most obvious changes you can make. Install a rear roll bar or go to a heavier bar. Use a stiffer spring and/or go up on the shock oil. Run less droop and increase the rear track. Then there are all the TX adjustments, but they've been discussed ad nauseum on this thread before. I'd go into shock angles and mounting points, but the Mini really acts weird to these and I'm not a good enough wordsmith to explain.
If the above doesn't fix the problem, you've really stepped into some deep dog dodo. You need to drastically change the amount of steering and you'll have to make changes to the front end. What you have to do is, in essence, make the car push a little. These things have been covered multiple times on this thread so i won't expand on this. Unfortunately, many people start here rather make the changes to the rear first. So after all this, So after all this, you'll have a car that you've taken the grip out of. Which is why the M03 has been, up to now, the better overall car.
This is just my opinion and if you differ, that's okay. I also tried to keep it brief cause most of this stuff I've posted before.
I forgot to mention the changes to the toe out and ride height. In this case, increase the toe out and raise the front ride height. You motor boat the ride height and hillbilly the the toe out.
In all seriousness though, you need to figure out where the traction roll occurs. If it's on turn in and violent, it's the front. If it's after turn , but before the apex, it's both or one or the other. Anything after that is the rear.
It doesn't occur often, but if it's the rear, it's usually a camber or ride height deal. Not a big deal, cause you want to free up the back end and give up some of the rear grip you just found. You'll probably run much faster laps, but I just don't have any test data to back up that assertion.
If it's after corner entry, here again not a super big deal. It's just adjusting out till you give up some grip on either the front or the rear. Whichever is the problem end.
If it's on corner entry, this is the, oh crap, traction roll. The reason you weren't traction rolling before was that the car was snap oversteering. When you picked up rear grip, that led to the traction roll, cause when you gave it the steering input the back end stayed there and the car tripped over the front. So, there are two basic approaches to the problem. Both of them, require you to give up some "grip" and free the car up.
Craig, I know you know this stuff, cause of lot of the knowledge came from you. But for the others, who may be interested, when you are trying to get rid of some steering, you work on the back end of the car. These give you smaller increments of change and you don't lose much of the steering. These are the most obvious changes you can make. Install a rear roll bar or go to a heavier bar. Use a stiffer spring and/or go up on the shock oil. Run less droop and increase the rear track. Then there are all the TX adjustments, but they've been discussed ad nauseum on this thread before. I'd go into shock angles and mounting points, but the Mini really acts weird to these and I'm not a good enough wordsmith to explain.
If the above doesn't fix the problem, you've really stepped into some deep dog dodo. You need to drastically change the amount of steering and you'll have to make changes to the front end. What you have to do is, in essence, make the car push a little. These things have been covered multiple times on this thread so i won't expand on this. Unfortunately, many people start here rather make the changes to the rear first. So after all this, So after all this, you'll have a car that you've taken the grip out of. Which is why the M03 has been, up to now, the better overall car.
This is just my opinion and if you differ, that's okay. I also tried to keep it brief cause most of this stuff I've posted before.
I forgot to mention the changes to the toe out and ride height. In this case, increase the toe out and raise the front ride height. You motor boat the ride height and hillbilly the the toe out.
Last edited by Granpa; 06-14-2015 at 11:23 PM. Reason: addition
06-15-2015, 06:24 AM
06-15-2015, 10:28 AM
Sakadachi,
is that your basement track? -more pic's please! Looks impressive.
As to the cracked chassis,
If not the speed of a 13t motor or crashing that is causing the chassis failures, what about any chemicals your using?
someone else mentioned this to and I know from experience that various chemicals including blue loctite will destroy the plastic used on our Tamiya Mini's. Have you used any cleaners, oils, etc on your mini?
is that your basement track? -more pic's please! Looks impressive.
As to the cracked chassis,
If not the speed of a 13t motor or crashing that is causing the chassis failures, what about any chemicals your using?
someone else mentioned this to and I know from experience that various chemicals including blue loctite will destroy the plastic used on our Tamiya Mini's. Have you used any cleaners, oils, etc on your mini?
06-15-2015, 11:32 AM
Yeah, it's pretty bad. You can see the inside rear lift just micro-seconds before the whole thing goes airborne. The flying is of course painless, only the landings hurt! Happens coming out of sweeper (there's a rough spot over there which can be avoided, but that's a slow line on a fast corner), coming onto straightaway (another rough spot there, slower speed, only avoidable if you pick a line that requires smaller steering input, which is difficult because of the intricacy of the preceding 2 turns). Occasionally was TR'ing in infield, but always towards the end of the turn with lots of steering input. Been trying more rear camber (up to 3* now), the stiffer rear bar (no coat hangers yet, but...), widened rear, varying rear RH from a high 5 to low 3. Toe-in is now 2* (1* mount, 1* upright) and "old" blue springs, a combo that has worked well at our track for long time. Pretty much textbook Grandpa, but it's still traction rolling right now.
Yesterday's bench project was rebuilding M05 ball diff with new A-W grease and set tighter. I have never liked real tight diffs on our big track; the steering becomes too twitchy, and our flowing corners don't really need the extra dig, but I've gotta try something, because these Super-Grip spec tires are, a.....difficult.
), widened rear, varying rear RH from a high 5 to low 3. Toe-in is now 2* (1* mount, 1* upright) and "old" blue springs, a combo that has worked well at our track for long time. Pretty much textbook Grandpa, but it's still traction rolling right now.Yesterday's bench project was rebuilding M05 ball diff with new A-W grease and set tighter. I have never liked real tight diffs on our big track; the steering becomes too twitchy, and our flowing corners don't really need the extra dig, but I've gotta try something, because these Super-Grip spec tires are, a.....difficult.
06-15-2015, 12:21 PM
That is one part of the track, there is another L portion that wraps around which is not in the shot.The full track I expect to complete in the next few years will add another 5ft in width. But for now, works great as my auto-x-like track for my M-chassis and a fairly decent sized track for my MiniZ's.
06-15-2015, 01:09 PM
Those of you that have the M05 Pro Version 2.. what upgrades do you suggest?
I have one I bought when it came out, then we had a baby and I never raced it. So I thought I'd pick up any upgrades so when I get back to racing I can build it up instead of having to wait for parts..
Just from looking at it, I'm thinking the aluminum battery holder plates.. I have a set on my M05 Pro, but the screw that mounts it has stripped.
I have one I bought when it came out, then we had a baby and I never raced it. So I thought I'd pick up any upgrades so when I get back to racing I can build it up instead of having to wait for parts..
Just from looking at it, I'm thinking the aluminum battery holder plates.. I have a set on my M05 Pro, but the screw that mounts it has stripped.
06-15-2015, 01:34 PM
The full track I expect to complete in the next few years will add another 5ft in width. But for now, works great as my auto-x-like track for my M-chassis and a fairly decent sized track for my MiniZ's.
Those of you that have the M05 Pro Version 2.. what upgrades do you suggest?
If your going to race it, the Mid or long wheelbase seems to dominate. Also when racing you'll want every ounce of speed you can get, ...don't put grease in the internal gears, use some thin oil and just a bit of it. I use a spray on silicone ...just to keep it slightly lubed. Oh, a T03 ball diff is a must in my opinion, you'll be able to get speed through the corners better than w/ the stock gear diff' setup. Last thing, experiment w/ tires. I run S-grips on the rear and TAmiya slicks on front, this for a high grip track. i find that s-grips all around gives me too much traction roll. But other drivers on our same track use S-grips all around (but i've noticed that our top drivers s-grips are worn pretty good ...so they are almost slicks). point is experiment w/ tires!
