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Old 01-10-2008, 07:50 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
The gearing does vary a lot with motors/rotors... I ran 10.5 at a BRL event (oval) and though I'd be slick and put a new rotor in that I won in the event raffle... Needless to say the gearing was way off and I lost a lap off my pace in the last qualifier and the main... At the Novak, Blackstock and I came off in the mains with very similar temps and straight a way speed but I was geared about 3-4 teeth lower than he was... You have to run a motor and learn it and not base your gearing off the next guy... Start way safe and gear up from there......
josh
what were you using to base your gearing on? motor temp? sound down the straight?
what were your 10.5 coming off at in foam???
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:31 PM   #122
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Chris - Mainly temp/feel to judge the gearing. I tried to keep it between 160-180F. Really, anything hotter than that just runs flat the last 1-2 minutes anyway hurting the overall run. My mod (4.0), 10.5 and 13.5 at home during club racing have all fallen in this range when they have run well. Sometimes, I have been known to get a little aggressive with the brakes if my car is pushing and I will push the temp to 180-200 and even then I'll gear down (as I did at the Novak Race) to get the temp down until I got my car right.

BL is similar to nitro to me in terms of set-up - There is a balance that you have to deal with and you have to keep yourself in check. Sure, you can lean the crap out of a nitro engine to turn a hot lap but chances are you aren't going to win the race and you are going to have to buy a new engine..... BL is no different but all of us in electric have been used to pushing the limit each and every run and if we miss we unsolder the motor and/or just cut the comm and replace the brushes. The game has changed so now we will have to be disiplined in our set-ups (basically regulating ourselves) from damaging our equipment....

"It's all about balance young grasshoppa..." ...lol...
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:47 PM   #123
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Hi Josh, what part of the motor do you temp?
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:52 PM   #124
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Josh...You mean that....All brushless motors arent equal like we heard ?????????...lol. 4 teeth ? Probably start more crap with that question..Hope you got power back. Electricity at home I mean.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:54 PM   #125
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a little anyway

Last edited by JtDieter; 01-10-2008 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:01 PM   #126
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I run oval and we've been running brushless motors competetively for atleast 2 years. Take it for what its worth but from what I've seen finding a super stellar rotor doesnt guarantee anything. While 90-95% of the rotors your not gonna see a difference there are some (like EA's) that are just bad. So in that case theres a good chance anything you put in will be better. Switching new rotors constantly isnt gonna do much either because like Josh said the gearing is always a little different with each rotor and motor and you would constantly have to be adjusting. Thats what I've seen running 10.5 oval. As far as temp it seems to vary alot with handling, track conditions, driving, I dont think theres really a magic temp, 150-180 depending.

EA,
Did you bring the ziegler mobile home in one peice?
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:26 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Hays Jr View Post
I run oval and we've been running brushless motors competetively for atleast 2 years. Take it for what its worth but from what I've seen finding a super stellar rotor doesnt guarantee anything. While 90-95% of the rotors your not gonna see a difference there are some (like EA's) that are just bad. So in that case theres a good chance anything you put in will be better. Switching new rotors constantly isnt gonna do much either because like Josh said the gearing is always a little different with each rotor and motor and you would constantly have to be adjusting. Thats what I've seen running 10.5 oval. As far as temp it seems to vary alot with handling, track conditions, driving, I dont think theres really a magic temp, 150-180 depending.

EA,
Did you bring the ziegler mobile home in one peice?
Also one other thing when you compare gearing to someone else be SURE to find out how much timing their motor has in it. Guys were wondering at the BRL why I was 4-5 teeth higher than them....because I had mine set at stock timing....theirs were cranked up. When I cranked mine up and dropped to their gear I picked up about 3/4 of a lap. Faster all the way through the run.

That mobile home needs a tornado to take it away....It may be good on a banked track but it sucked there!! I had to run the "Puffy C" Special edition!

EA
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:40 PM   #128
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There's also the question of a motor's "feel." My overheated 13mm rotor felt awesome in a 13.5 the next time I ran it (geared down), but it got really hot by the end of the race and faded hard. I find myself wishing the motor always felt the way it did in those first few minutes. Quite fast, and very smooth. Sadly, it seems to get too hot no matter where I gear it, and unable to finish a race strong. We actually saw similar results in the old bonded rotor days, but those faded at much lower temperatures. Once you overheated one, it would get hot and thermal almost guaranteed every time you ran it after that. It sure did seem to pick up some speed, though. The mind boggles...
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:48 PM   #129
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Also, it's worth pointing out that people are trying to tune/alter these motors now. I've passed this link around a few times now, but for those who haven't seen it:

http://ptityo.skyrock.com/
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #130
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zoot allores !! Merdre..........
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:40 AM   #131
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Francis - I normally check all parts of the motor. You have to be careful on the Novak with the purple ring as it will sometimes give extremely high #'s. Put a decal on it or only check it on the Novak decal....


Jim - Nope...lol... I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of the difference was just in the tolerance/play when the sensor board is attached to the timing ring. Just .25mm play from the screw patern equals over 1mm of timing at the OD.... Maybe I should stop there before everyone has their motors a part with a dremel trying to make it faster...lol....
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:09 PM   #132
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Yes the Zubak's meter DOES work. I checked my rotor this past weekend at the BRL race and asked the guy who owned it what was good before he checked mine. He said "I wont run anything under 1200 and the best ones are in the 1300 range". When he checked mine it was 1009. I was laughed at But it was still good enough to qual 5th and finish 3rd. Who know's what I could have done with a "good" rotor!

Moral of the story is there is a big difference in the rotors. And just to clarify the motor was bought at the Oval masters in November and was only run at the Oval masters (10.5) and then at the BRL this past weekend (10.5). It probably has 15-20 runs on it MAX in an oval car.

EA
FYI, Charlie and Bob were checking any rotors that were brought to them and said the same thing, as long as it was 1300 or better, no problem... but if under that, could be an issue.

and he did mention to check the temp on a sticker, rather than having it reflect off of the metallic surface. he was suggesting not to go over 160 degrees...
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:12 PM   #133
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I thought this thread was supposed to be about Jim Dieter's Trinity/Xray excuses for not winning the Novak race. He obviously is using all of you to figure out his lack of knowledge and get some of the best minds in the industry to tell him what he doesn't know. I don't know who has less brains!
What is the true purpose of this thread - tires? motors? No - he has made you talk. And you all have said a mouthful. He is only a legend in his own mind.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:37 PM   #134
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I for one have found this thread very informative. If Dieter can learn from the same open forum I read then that makes me as informed as he is

So a question: on the Novak 13.5, Am I to understand that I should not take Temp reading from the purple ring? As I do now the ring is the 'hottest' at about 145 to 150 but the ribbed area is only about 120 or less, Am I really under geared (cause its flies in the 1/12)
And how about the Trinity 4.5 in the Touring car? Is there a spot considered optimum to use?
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:15 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slewis View Post
I thought this thread was supposed to be about Jim Dieter's Trinity/Xray excuses for not winning the Novak race. He obviously is using all of you to figure out his lack of knowledge and get some of the best minds in the industry to tell him what he doesn't know. I don't know who has less brains!
What is the true purpose of this thread - tires? motors? No - he has made you talk. And you all have said a mouthful. He is only a legend in his own mind.

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing.
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