R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-09-2008, 08:36 PM   #61
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 100
Default

Everyone's gotta know that a handout speedo would be ridiculous due to costs. There has to be a way to be able to tech the settings used in the speedos. Some sort of device to plug the speedo into and check it out while in tech. With all the knowledgable people in the industry and that race, this should be an easy thing to do. Just like the old Pit Wizard and the KO handheld programmer now, you plug it in, hit a few buttons and it tells you exactly what the settings are. Then you could even tell the speedo manufacturers to include one (or two) race programs on the speedos and you better be running that profile when it's teched.
automator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 08:58 PM   #62
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
And did said person make an A? :-D
Yes
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:49 PM   #63
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Yes
Damn, that totally ruins my argument. :-) Congrats on making the show. Sorry to hear you had to use so many rotors, I hope that isn't a trend. Did anybody have a Zubak meter at the race?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 10:34 PM   #64
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JtDieter View Post
Great job to Scotty, ran as only Scotty can do it. The first Brushless only race....We'll be discussing ways to fine tune this system as we race the 10.5 class more. By "we", I mean the manufactures. Now we can hurt motors if we arent careful in the 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Everyone has way more battery than a layout like this will allow you to use. We could have ran two races without recharging if we could have geared higher without melting....new problems. Modified, nearly the same. We had over a minute left at 30 amps after a mod run, we simply couldnt use it. On a track where the 10.5 class is only a couple tenths off mod, we will never dump. Better for the average racer trying to compete for sure.
As far as our team ? We lost, cant win them all I guess. Both Mike and Josh ran for me several years on tracks just like this. I knew that they would be good as soon as I saw it. Mike had a setup that was the least scrubbing I had ever seen, his motors didnt even change tones in the corner. Both did a great job, all I can say is congrats and go back to work.
This race definately showed us that things are going to be different, brushless is not the great equalizer everyone had hoped. It pointed out more problems to be solved. Fixed timing motors wont be as important as fixed timing speed controls for one. And...How the hell do you tech it ?? If we guess wrong, it will cost us a motor. Needless to say, I will be speaking with Novak, Cochran, Oscar, anyone else who wants to help the race directors figure things out before the next one.
I don't understand the purpose of this thread? what is the problem with the speed controls? why do we need to change them? "We will never dump". Who dumps in a 5 minute main anymore? 1 minute of extra runtime at 30 amps is useless if the car has no rip out of a turn.

The fact that Blackstock and Cyrul only had two mod motors each, and no battery or motor sponsor present at the race, shows "Us" that brushless motors very well could be the "great equalizer we had all hope for"

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just trying to understand...
Biff Malibu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 11:01 PM   #65
Tech Regular
 
quantum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamge View Post
Why stop there? Handout chassis, too!
how is that the same thing at all?!?!?

with brushed motors the brush compound, spring tension, hood alignment, etc all play factors in the performance and characteristics of the motor. what jim is telling us is that with brushless motors you eliminate all those things but its the speedo that can make the difference. so now that must be tech'd. do you want to end up in a situation where the top drivers are burning out speedos each race day just to gain a competitive edge?
what i was suggesting was that instead of a handout speedo, just have a handout profile that can be inserted into the speedo. a microSD card nowadays is so cheap. of course it would require the manufacturers to build the speedo to work with a insertable profile.
quantum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 05:42 AM   #66
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 323
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to adamliehr
Default

If you were to tech the speed controls you would have to go from both the mechanical angle and the programing angle. If you only tech the programing, people will find a loop hole in the mechanical side; visa-versa. I don't have much experience with bl at all. However, like brushed motors there will always be tricks to get more power than the next guy. If you tech the speedo's people will tweak motors. There is always going to be some sort of gray area that someone will find.

Racers will always push to get the most of their gear.
adamliehr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 06:53 AM   #67
Tech Champion
 
Kevin K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,833
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kevin K Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin K
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JtDieter View Post
..... Josh ran rubber tire, didnt seem as hard on things. Probably a lesson in that.....
Jim so do you think that if racing went back to Rubber tire on all sedan classes then some of these crazy brushless motor problems like blown ESC's, 1 run rotors, 1 run motors/esc(s) will be eliminated? I personally think that after watching what the foam stock racers were doing with 1 run tires and some with 1 run rotors was insane....and if we were all racing on rubber tires then this wouldn’t be the case...look at what Josh was able to acomplish...if the hand out tire would have been better he might not have had to get more then 1 set. Especially if they choose a harder tire as hand out tire...then it will be easier to over power the tires then it is with foams. Another question how much longer do foam tire compaines continue to just dump money into these drivers and classes when the mass of people actually buying tires seem to be racing now on rubber tires? Final question....how soon until Trinity starts to sell pre-mounted rubber tires???
__________________
2013 USVTA World Champion of the World
MOTIV RC presents the Midwest All-Star Carpet Series....15th year running 2017/18!!!
USVTA National Championship....check it out!!!
Im only responsible for what I say NOT what you understand.
Kevin K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 07:58 AM   #68
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 109
Default

Hi Kev...No plans for tires right now, but I dont like where it's going. I agree on everything, one run tires especially. All foam classes are that way now. The main problem with tire and battery companies seems to be missed. With the giant boxes of free stuff being sent in to big races...everyone helps a friend with a handout. The track loses a ton of sales, track doesnt make money, track closes. This story repeats more than we know. Biff... No such thing as lack of rip in mod. You can still blaze the tires the last lap. We didnt hurt mod stuff either. Hurt a couple sensor boards probably from unplugging them. But BK ran one motor all week, Paul and Ralph ran no more than two, didnt hurt either. Mike and Josh are plenty capable of building their own packs, they dont need their hand held if they have enough stuff.
JtDieter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 08:12 AM   #69
Tech Master
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dirt sucks!
Posts: 1,614
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Hey Jim,
I can remember everyone complaining about the premounts when they first came out, but now they are the norm. Bring back the foams with the grey stripe. Spec/handout foams. Purple compound front and rear. The end of one run foams!
__________________
"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of laying it down - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek to beat ass."

-Espo
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 08:43 AM   #70
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 462
Default

Personally, I don't think a spec foam would eliminate the 1 run tires. You'll still have guys running a set at the best diameter for 1 run and saving what's left for a run at a club race.

Pretty much everything has improved (is faster) except the foams that we're running. We have faster motors, batteries, and cars but it seems like we have the same basic foam compounds as 10 years ago. They've added a couple of different shores but it's the same foam. It's pretty obvious to me that the best way to fix the one run foam issue is to make better foam tires.
Unregistered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 09:11 AM   #71
Tech Master
 
billjacobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1,264
Trader Rating: 55 (100%+)
Default foam tires

On the issue of foam tires, I think the problem is 3-fold:
1) Foam is optimal at a certain diameter, so racers true tires to that diameter, run 1 or 2 times, then get another set trued to the optimal diameter. It seems that because foam thickness changes handling characteristics, it is easier to keep changing foam tires than to change suspension setup as the tires wear.
2) It seems that the more power you lay down, the more wear the foam is going to have to maintain grip, this feeds into #1 above
3) Too many sponsored racers getting tires at a discount or free

The problem is not the foam, the problem is unlimited cost racing.
billjacobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 09:25 AM   #72
Tech Master
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dirt sucks!
Posts: 1,614
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Personally, I don't think a spec foam would eliminate the 1 run tires. You'll still have guys running a set at the best diameter for 1 run and saving what's left for a run at a club race.

Pretty much everything has improved (is faster) except the foams that we're running. We have faster motors, batteries, and cars but it seems like we have the same basic foam compounds as 10 years ago. They've added a couple of different shores but it's the same foam. It's pretty obvious to me that the best way to fix the one run foam issue is to make better foam tires.
How would the spec foams running the fastest at a certain diameter be any different than spec rubber tires running the fastest on their first two runs? Also, I am sure Trinity could sell a set (4) of "spec" foams cheaper than a set of $32-$36 CS/RP tires. A couple years ago when most drivers used Plaid/Purple tires the wear really was not bad. I remember going to Octoberfast at TCHR and using 3 sets of tires all week for practice and the race and still left with tires that I could run club racing.
__________________
"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of laying it down - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek to beat ass."

-Espo

Last edited by Xpress; 01-10-2008 at 09:29 AM. Reason: .
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 09:27 AM   #73
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 109
Default

We talked about spec foam racing, eliminating it, etc... But when we all got over the discussion. We all realized that we would miss it. At least people are seeing the problems now, maybe some solutions will appear before we lose more heats of foam racing.
JtDieter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 09:32 AM   #74
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 3,121
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to A. Rhodes
Questions??

Jim - with the low FDR required by BL motors, how did the team gear the T2's for the Novak race? Did they use 48 or 64 pitch gears, and what size spur? Are there custom motor mounts that allow a much larger pinion than stock? I know from running BL the last few months, getting the right gear and being able to get mesh set can be very difficult with a T2.
__________________
Retired from RC....
Quantum - St. Croix - Bass Pro Shops - XPS - Rapala
A. Rhodes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2008, 09:36 AM   #75
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 109
Default

Back when we did those spec tires, it went along with the entire series that I did. Cheap packs, cheap motors, cars, tires (12 bucks a pr. retail) etc..It worked well for awhile, but things were altered into it being another racing class that chased out newcomers.....And..those who dont learn from their mistakes are distined to repeat them. When we all get away from the race and the competitive side, we make more sense at the night time meals than at the track. Thinking we should get some manufacturers together at the birds and compare notes.
JtDieter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Summary of my email this year nitrous36 Chat Lounge 1 12-17-2007 01:30 PM
Dieter back at Trinity? fastskully Electric On-Road 68 11-17-2007 05:01 PM
Jim Dieter back with trinity b-man777 Electric On-Road 1 10-25-2007 12:01 PM
F1 @ Trackside? FIRE RIDER Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 2 04-07-2003 04:52 PM
best set-up for trackside? SteveA Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 5 03-18-2003 12:57 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:15 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net