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Old 01-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #31
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Why are you thinking that brushless motor timing should be restricted? There's no point. Don't make everything more complicated for no reason. Teching that rule would require a logic analyzer, a well-trained electrical engineer, and a lot of his time.

Here's what will happen in the absence of a brushless motor timing rule: Some guys at LRP and Tekin will figure out what timing equation* yields the most power from the motor. They'll program that into the ESCs they sell, and anyone who buys a new ESC will have it.

No where was racing ruined. Racers didn't smoke or wear out motors. The ESCs we have now are good, and somewhat adjustable. The ESCs available next year might be good for an extra 0.05s per lap.

It's exactly the same scenario as new TC chassis. Good ones are available now, and a few manufacturer employees are developing fractionally better ones. There's no rule that says a drive shaft has to be 51.7mm long, because it would be arbitrary and pointless. Don't do that to ESCs.

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*I say equation, because it'll definitely vary with RPM and throttle position.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:24 PM   #32
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I should also point out that this idea of a locked timing ring on a brushless motor is false hope. Any ESC programmer can advance or retard timing in the code. If anything, he'll be dreaming of locked and specified timing ring, because then he knows what the mechanical timing is.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:27 PM   #33
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I think Rick was right when he said what cant be policed should be opened up. We'll probably get away from fixed timing and go toward the infinately adjustable as well. I saw what max speedo timing does when mixed with max static timing....plastic puddle. This will probably end up being self policing, like gearing the stock brushed stuff too high.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:38 PM   #34
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I would believe, like anything else in this world, there has to be a compromise from the manufacture. If they time the motor/speedo for maximum power, the longevity will suffer. If they time it for longevity (isn't that the point of brushless) power will suffer. From the manufacture standpoint, it makes sense to please the masses with durable equipment and let the tuners do their thing rather than receive phone calls and email from every 14 yr old kid that just melted the motor in his car after one weekend of bashing. If the pros want to melt a motor, let them. They were probably going to throw it away after the weekend anyway. (along with the batteries they charged at 10 amps and one-run tires)
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
I would believe, like anything else in this world, there has to be a compromise from the manufacture. If they time the motor/speedo for maximum power, the longevity will suffer. If they time it for longevity (isn't that the point of brushless) power will suffer. From the manufacture standpoint, it makes sense to please the masses with durable equipment and let the tuners do their thing rather than receive phone calls and email from every 14 yr old kid that just melted the motor in his car after one weekend of bashing. If the pros want to melt a motor, let them. They were probably going to throw it away after the weekend anyway. (along with the batteries they charged at 10 amps and one-run tires)
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:07 AM   #36
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Well....You guys are probably right about the mfg. racers pushing the limit too far. I'll fry one to win a race.(if necessary) I know if we run better than the rest, they will too. I'm not sure it will matter what the rules are. Brushed motors can be geared to the point that they wont pull in most cases. Seems that with all this new torque, we can continue to add gear until something breaks. The warning signs are different, and usually too late.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:29 AM   #37
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Jim,

did any of the team guys use a fan on the motor? Is this an option to reduce the potential gearing/heat problems that are being discussed?.

I was a ton of fun at the race watching everyone working with this new format.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:34 AM   #38
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Jim,

did any of the team guys use a fan on the motor? Is this an option to reduce the potential gearing/heat problems that are being discussed?.

I was a ton of fun at the race watching everyone working with this new format.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:02 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
Myself, and quite a few other guys have found that brand new rotors run better.

One guy went thru 5 on the weekend.

Maybe handout rotors are the answer.
Do your track times support that? How much of a difference are we talking? Are you sure its not a matter of you feel like you are faster so you are? Not saying your wrong, just curious. Trying to cut through the hype we sometimes (ok, lots of time) get with RC.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:32 AM   #40
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Do your track times support that? How much of a difference are we talking? Are you sure its not a matter of you feel like you are faster so you are? Not saying your wrong, just curious. Trying to cut through the hype we sometimes (ok, lots of time) get with RC.
It's kind of like running a new set of brushes as opposed to a set that has been run once or twice. At least this is what I am gathering from the info I have been reading.
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:01 AM   #41
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Overheating Brushless Motors?? .. From 'fondling' the timing??.. A lil too much 'fondling' and BOOM!!.. Sure Racing is RACING, but there needs to be line drawn somewhere.. Racing is FUN for everyone.. If its affordable.. All these manufacturer's are talking 'we are gonna make it fun again'.. but at what cost??

Dont do handout Speedos, Do handout Motors (tagged/marked/badged/sealed).. 1 for the weekend/event.. You toast it, oh well.. "TOO BAD, SO SAD, YOUR-DAD!!".. Some may argue 'It wont last the weekend'. SURE it will, if you dont get GREEDY..


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Old 01-09-2008, 09:07 AM   #42
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It's kind of like running a new set of brushes as opposed to a set that has been run once or twice. At least this is what I am gathering from the info I have been reading.
Expensive brushes!
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:47 AM   #43
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Expensive brushes!
No doubt. Some find it in themselves to win at all costs. Not very smart and the average racer will not be able to do this.

The question becomes how much of a difference is really making? I am going to get one or two tenth for 5 minutes with a new rotor over a used rotor?

Last edited by RBLove; 01-09-2008 at 10:20 AM. Reason: more BS to add
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:51 AM   #44
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No doubt. Some find it in themselves to win at all costs. Not very smart and the average racer will not be able to do this.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=187017

That thread has a lot of interesting info about rotor strength. I never really feel like a new rotor makes a difference... unless I overheat my existing one (200+) then I can tell since it runs much hotter after that.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:21 AM   #45
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People are always going to find a way to push the envolope and get right to the edge of blowing stuff up in an effort to go fast. It's just unfortunate that with brushless now we're risking blowing up a $90 brushless motor instead of a $35 brushed motor.
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