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Old 01-07-2008, 11:17 AM   #1
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Default brushless motor teching for 17.5 ,13.5 and10.5

brushless motors are a big debate right now not only with roar but racers aswell. My ? is how will these motors be teched? there are diffrent rotor sizes avaliable will this be a tech thing or a tuning tool for racers.I personaly think it would be nice to not have to buy diffrent sized rotors,instead of buying brushes you may be buying rotors. The hype on brushless is cost, the motors last longer and there isn't much mantinance on them. If they only allow one sized rotor how will they be able to tech this since most motors are in a solid can? this is just something i have beeen thinking about since i have gotten into brushless.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:21 AM   #2
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Hey Neil,

We are currently working on a device which should easily and accurately determine the wind of a given brushless motor regardless of rotor composition or size.

In regards to the tech of a rotor at this point the only accurate way to determine the size of a given rotor is to actually measure it.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:31 AM   #3
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Seal the can please...
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #4
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ok well here is a thought that the motor companies could do to make teching rotors easier is possibly stamp the rotor diameter on the flat side of the shaft where the pinion goes. this way if they are teched all it would take is the removale of the pinion. how much would this cost to take process and how much would the retail price go up
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:36 AM   #5
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The Local Club I belong [ovrccc.com] to has had 'issues' or accusations of 'unsportsman like conduct' [cheating to the rest of ya] after LENGTHY discussion w/Charlie of Novak we purchased the meter he suggested and have been using it to check the BL motors as instructed, to date no one has been found to be illegal, but a couple of motors are 'borderline' thus a teardown is the next choice to determine the validity of the motors in question, as it is w/brushed, no biggie, technology, make it work for you!!!

good luck

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Old 01-07-2008, 11:39 AM   #6
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Why worry about rotor size? At this point, brushless motors have so little on them to tune, let the racers decide what rotor to use in their motors. This will cut down on the number of things that a race director will have to worry about. Not to mention that there are only so many different sized rotors available anyway. Unlike brushes, where there are so many different brands and compounds available, along with springs. Brushless already takes the mechanical tuning out of motor prep. Let people have some say in how their motors feel on different tracks.

If you are going to limit everything, lets have gear manufacturers produce 'spec pinions', too, "only 23 tooth pinions allowed in any races from now on". This is getting ridiculous. Next, I want radio manufacturers to include a 'reset button' on my transmitter so I can just press that when I pile my ride into a corner, or for when the race isn't going my way.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Why worry about rotor size? At this point, brushless motors have so little on them to tune, let the racers decide what rotor to use in their motors. This will cut down on the number of things that a race director will have to worry about. Not to mention that there are only so many different sized rotors available anyway. Unlike brushes, where there are so many different brands and compounds available, along with springs. Brushless already takes the mechanical tuning out of motor prep. Let people have some say in how their motors feel on different tracks.

If you are going to limit everything, lets have gear manufacturers produce 'spec pinions', too, "only 23 tooth pinions allowed in any races from now on". This is getting ridiculous. Next, I want radio manufacturers to include a 'reset button' on my transmitter so I can just press that when I pile my ride into a corner, or for when the race isn't going my way.
the reason for bring this up is you could look at it this way yes with brushless you don't have to buy springs, brushes etc. yes there are only a few rotor sizes out at this time. there will be more, give it time. with rotors being 30 plus a peice how many are you willing to buy. If they made a standard sized rotor that everyone used this would make the playing feild fair and keep '' the cost down''
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:50 AM   #8
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Right now, the tuning rotors are offered primarily for use in modified racing, where there are no tech requirements for winds or (most) rotors. Spec racing probably will not allow the 13mm (tuning) rotor.

Our 13mm rotor has a beveled shaft edge that can be seen without disassembling the motor. Motor prices have a ROAR retail price cap, so it is unlikely that cost increases can be passed through to the customer.

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Originally Posted by nitro neil View Post
ok well here is a thought that the motor companies could do to make teching rotors easier is possibly stamp the rotor diameter on the flat side of the shaft where the pinion goes. this way if they are teched all it would take is the removale of the pinion. how much would this cost to take process and how much would the retail price go up
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:57 AM   #9
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the reason for bring this up is you could look at it this way yes with brushless you don't have to buy springs, brushes etc. yes there are only a few rotor sizes out at this time. there will be more, give it time. with rotors being 30 plus a peice how many are you willing to buy. If they made a standard sized rotor that everyone used this would make the playing feild fair and keep '' the cost down''
I purchase the maximum amount of hand-out motors at the handout races that I go to now, and have about 5 - 8 stock motors in my gear bag now. Since rotors will more than likely be a one time purchase, as opposed to the stock motors that I get at hand-out races now, I really don't see the problem. You drag $800 - $1500 in gear to a track every week, an extra $30 is a very small percentage of that, and takes considerably less room and weight.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:11 PM   #10
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I purchase the maximum amount of hand-out motors at the handout races that I go to now, and have about 5 - 8 stock motors in my gear bag now. Since rotors will more than likely be a one time purchase, as opposed to the stock motors that I get at hand-out races now, I really don't see the problem. You drag $800 - $1500 in gear to a track every week, an extra $30 is a very small percentage of that, and takes considerably less room and weight.
that is great that you are so into racing and can afford it. how about the 14 year old kid that wants to be competitive but his allowance won't allow it because he gets less than 30 a week. what will happen then as we all have seen it you will not see him around and our hobby will dwindle even more. cost effective racing will help keep people racing this why stock racing was started
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:20 PM   #11
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I started this thread to see what everyone thinks about teching the motors and find out what they feel about what should be teched on them. I was hoping that the motor companies would also see this so that they could all get together and discuss this and let the rest of the rc world know how this stuff will be handled
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:22 PM   #12
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A new user will probably be racing in stock/sportsman/spec events. The events that we are aware of (BRL, etc) do not allow the tuning rotors. Race directors will have to tech the motors and enforce the spec rules.

There is simply no way around the enforcement requirement. People fear brushless cheating, but cheating is not very likely with a good tech program in place. Novak has, and will continue, to help the motor tech people by providing the information and advice for the equipment necessary to perform these duties.

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that is great that you are so into racing and can afford it. how about the 14 year old kid that wants to be competitive but his allowance won't allow it because he gets less than 30 a week. what will happen then as we all have seen it you will not see him around and our hobby will dwindle even more. cost effective racing will help keep people racing this why stock racing was started
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro neil View Post
I started this thread to see what everyone thinks about teching the motors and find out what they feel about what should be teched on them. I was hoping that the motor companies would also see this so that they could all get together and discuss this and let the rest of the rc world know how this stuff will be handled
Neil, Novak has been very involved in this issue for several years. Here is the motor inductance test procedure that is currently used for brushless motor tech:

Checking for Motor Compliance
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:36 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=NovakTwo;4048253]Right now, the tuning rotors are offered primarily for use in modified racing, where there are no tech requirements for winds or (most) rotors. Spec racing probably will not allow the 13mm (tuning) rotor.QUOTE]

Who says? And why?
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:43 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=PitNamedGordie;4048395]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Right now, the tuning rotors are offered primarily for use in modified racing, where there are no tech requirements for winds or (most) rotors. Spec racing probably will not allow the 13mm (tuning) rotor.QUOTE]

Who says? And why?
I'm guessing that you are inquiring about tuning rotor use in spec racing?

The rotors fit in the higher wind motors, but spec race directors can (and do) decide against their use in their race events----to level the playing field for the racers.

For example, Sonny Brown does not allow the tuning rotor in his BRL Oval series spec races.
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