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Old 01-20-2004, 03:26 PM   #1261
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huh

chrisman, that was a timely post. did you get my email fowarded from the man?

as you know, the beta has not treated me so well these last few months. i would expound, but i've got a feeling the information has already reached its destination.

hopefully the near future will allow me to post some manifestations of my thoughts. i'm always threatening to post pics, and seldom come good with it.

we'll see.

weekend - what was your last ride? and what type of racing do you do? ei, stock/mod, indoor/outdoor, tight/open courses.

the lab can run, but i may have found a weakness.
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Old 01-20-2004, 11:07 PM   #1262
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seaball....buddy,

No..haven't got ur e-mail from the man..
I just have lots of thoughts abt the car....I know you too.You probably had tried all the gear ratios.....Coolikeice has been trying out gearings too... need to find out the sweet settings.I know there's some for this car......

So what have you started on now?..Any input is all good....thats why there's always discussions...pics...bring them on too.
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Old 01-21-2004, 01:39 AM   #1263
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Hi Guys,

ever since our team got hold of the GT3 beta and final release it was no holding us back in races. this chassis is really something to shout about. with our first outing it has given us A's. GT3 is very commandable and very easy to drive. with the new threaded shocks it just took about 1/2 hour to Rebuild all 4 of em. New Alloy drive shafts is so light weight and efficient.

Currently our drivers are testing the 1.882, 2.133, 2.176 internal ratio. New belts is under testing and will be out soon to accommodate all internal ratios. Check out the New GT3 Setup Sheet and you'll have some cool ideas.

many of our drivers upgraded to GT3 and it was looking back for their skills, this car really has improve their skills tremendously. for us it's just the index page of a big book, we haven't even look at page 1.


This was taken during one of our first carpet race in Malaysia


Boy did we had some fun tearing up the carpets

the story is yet to be told .......................

Last edited by coolikeice; 01-21-2004 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:01 AM   #1264
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Hello Coolikeice,

Nice job on the winnings....what kind of carpet you run on?...It's blue?...The track looks big...nice fast lay out.Nothin too technical. I want to race there too...ha!!haa!!.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:02 AM   #1265
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Thumbs up congratulations

congrats to coolikeice. that's great. it looks like there's great promise for the latest chassis.

ice - please post a detailed setup of the more successful cars that weekend. and how are the cars weight bias? as i've said, i've put 110% into this car since october of '02, running only on carpet in 27t stock. here are my findings thus far.

- it has very good intial turn in.

- it lacks a balance roll characteristic. soft or hard, the rear of the car will roll profusely when compared to the front. if i limit the roll of the car, it tends to stay flat and pitch itself around.

- the ineffectiveness of the front swaybar won't allow the car to be setup soft enough in the front to get a better roll bias.

- the gt3's tuneability is nice, but the kit stock lowered roll center seems to make the car lazy.

- and the new matte black carbon fiber is sub par. the gt3 chassis is by far the least resistant to twist of the three i have (evoI, evoII, and gt3).

there are many great things about the car, but it is this weird roll/pitch characteristic that i want to get rid of. i've driven the car well, but it has taken more effort in some areas, than with some other chassis i've used.

am i the only one seeing this? perhaps i have not moved the roll axis to an appropriate location? everyone seems to feel that the stock geometry works well, but i just can't yet agree with that.

why have losi, schumacher, and ofna all aborted the rear mounted battery configuration? i believe it is something that vehicle dynamics field refers to as YAW. simply put...rotation. the corally drivers i've seen won't even run the rear motor option despite the super efficient direct drive. yes, one reason is the angle of the cvd's in this configuraion, but i've been told that it just doesn't feel good that way.

i dunno yet. i too have reasons for wanting the seven to succeed at high levels indoors, but i'm just not convinced that we are working from the correct platform.

perhaps your setups that you post will indicate an error or two of mine. -
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:31 AM   #1266
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Seaball

I ran a Tamiya EVO III & EVO III SE & Yokomo SSG SD last year running in my club championship and Torc series that goes to a number of tracks of all sizes, running stock ( 27turn ) motors on tarmac outdoor tracks.

This year im moving up to the 19turn spec class we run in the UK and once we get some better weather i hope to get some serious track time with the 7.7/GT3. So far all my running has been done in damp/wet conditions.

Just trying out the spool right now and working on getting a little more turnin, also working on brush/spring combo's on the Matrix 19t Quad Mag motor which i should be running all this year.
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:46 AM   #1267
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How much does the 7.7/GT3 cost? By looking at those cars I really think they have alot of trick stuff on them. I really like the GT3 and 7.7 all blue version. Both have tons of adjustments.

How hard are parts to come by? Do most just order off the RC Lab website?
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:56 AM   #1268
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Seaball....your input on the car is great...
Yes, I agreed on the car being lazy.As you can see I had ditched using the frt sway bars.Still looking a way to work out a better system.They didn't made any difference for me.
But I had work and learnt to drive the car without it.

With the change in battery relocation to the rear,the chassis feels longer than the previous one.Maybe I had spent a lot of time on the previous model and used to it.

The bulk heads are lower than the old one.I'm tempted to used the old ones and see.Same as the motor mount.So far the frt turn is excellent...just that the rear has to keep up..lol

Running on carpet..the chassis is excellent .NOO!...flex..but out doors,the chassis is too stiff.I may have the rear upper H plate cut all the way for a little flex.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:01 AM   #1269
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Hello Wyd,

Cost for the car approx $270..posted on RCLAB official site in HK.Now if you r from the US and want one,you may e-mail them and they will give u a cost for the kit shipped.Former US distributor has not been importing the new kit so going direct to them for now I guess it's alright until someone does the importing for North America.
[email protected] is their e-mail addy.This is off their site.


Buy RC Lab
Please read the below section see if it is already answered for you.

1. We are focusing on discontinued car kit and hard to find parts. Otherwise, we strongly suggest purchasing the items from your local hobby shop or ordering them if they currently do not have the item in stock.

2. if you want to place an order for specific items, please send us an email with item details description, your name, shipping address and contact number. we will reply you the payment details, delivery schedule and airway bill number for package tracking. All placed order will be payment before delivery.

3. Usually, we will reply the order details with invoice number within 24 hours. After your order confirmation with shipping details(express service select) and our bank advise for your payment received. We will sent out the package by our pirmary express services TNT Express. Most of the order will reach our customer within 4 days upon the order confirmation.

This car is solid,so spares may not be needed.Probably another diff for the frt as it comes with frt oneways.Or even better if you got Tamiya 04/EvoIII spares,some of them may just fit.Ie,cvd's....

If there's a part you needed emergency..post it here..one of us here maybe able to help you right away.Hope this helps you.
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Old 01-22-2004, 05:54 AM   #1270
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Thanks. That 7.7 GT3 Pro looks like a great car. Lots of adjustments and great weight distribution. Might look into getting one for a 2nd car t mess around with.
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Old 01-22-2004, 05:55 AM   #1271
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chrisman can you post some pics of your 7.7 GT3 Pro.

Thanks
Brian
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:07 PM   #1272
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Kung Hei Fatt Choi to our Asian drivers.It's the year of the Monkey..

Wyd,

I shall post some pics later..
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:30 PM   #1273
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At the Halloween Classic in Cleveland OH I got a chance to meet Seaball and see his car run. I have to agree with his assessment that the car may have an over bias of weight at the rear. This may play to its advantage outdoors, esp. low traction condidtions. Also, the car truly needs an effective front and rear swaybar system to be competetive on foam on carpet.

KevinK, who posts here on RCtech and made the A main in stock at the race used to race for Schumacher in the Axis I and II days, as well as being an old StreetWeapon racer. The Schumacher car had a similar lay out, and similar problems as he revealed to Seaball and I. That was supposed to be a lot of the reason they went back to the cells-down-the-side layout. At the time Schumacher was advocation a low roll center at the front and raising or lowering the rear to balance traction.

Quote "Raising the inner hing point of the lower a arms raises the roll center. This allows weight to transfer more and can create more traction. This will add traction to whichever end of the car you do this to. We did this alot on the Axis Pro to tame the rear end off power. It worked so well everyone did it.. everyone seems to prefer to run the font lower a arms low on the chassis and either raise or lower the rear inner hinge pins to get more or less traction"

They also cut the hubs , which lowered them closer to the ground and gave more traction. Similar to using the upper hole in the rear hub of a RClab..

"If the rear of your Axis was loose you would grind off 2mm of of the bottom of the rear hubs..and your problem was solved.....Cutting your rear hubs will get you more traction and make your car seem more planted all around. Raising the inner hinge pins is more of an off power mid corner traction aid."

Hope this helps
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Old 01-22-2004, 04:25 PM   #1274
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The new GT3 car has the batteries moved a little farther forward compared to the 7.7 Blue edition? If so it should help the car free up some. I know I did alot of the changes Schumacher did on their Axis 1 and 2. I had both versions and they did work well but never a great foam tire carpet car. Actually my 98 Schumacher was all around a better car for me on all surfaces.
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:30 PM   #1275
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I'm really sorry Robk but I just have to make a comment on a number of your points..............

Quote:
Quote "Raising the inner hing point of the lower a arms raises the roll center. This allows weight to transfer more..............

They also cut the hubs , which lowered them closer to the ground.......
Raising the inner hinge of lower arms does raise the roll centre, but this actually reduces the weight transfer!

Cutting 2mm off the bottom of the hubs does not lower the hub, it just raises the outer hinge pin and changes the arms sector angle! The hub stays at exactly the same distance above the ground whatever you do, your tyres see to that!

I nkow you have only quoted someone else, but the advice as presented is a little misleading, as there is no account taken for the arm radii and their effect on camber change. Raising the roll centre in this manner will actually give the effect of stiffening the suspension since you have reduced the leverage between the effective mass and the rotation point across that suspension.

The roll axis of a car is more important than the individual roll centres, i.e. its the relationship between the front and rear rather than the front or rear independantly. On the Lab, the roll axis will have a profound affect on the cornering of the car. This is partly due to the short'ish suspension arms and the lateral force vectors.

It really is a poor practice to blindly expect what works on one car to work in exactly the same way on any other. Due to the vastly different suspension designs and geometries they will not respond in the same way to a change of this nature, for a start the hub pivots and pick points, in relation to the roll axis are completely different, the arm pivot lengths are totally different as are the upper/lower pivot angles and ratios and thus the force paths and vectors operate completely differently.

Yes the cells have moved between the different models, from the 7-6 to ther 7-7 the cells moved 3mm back, the 7-7 had the upper decks and pickup points raised by 2mm which altered the arm pivot and roll axis relationship, requiring the cells to be moved back to compensate, and from the 7-7 to the GT3 they have moved forwards by 6mm, this was partly to refine the weight distribution and also to take account of the increased weight of the GP3300 cells.

It is a common problem with all cars that run the cells down one side of the car to experience lateral balance problems, in some case it can be quite pronounced. Your average car builder does not always realise this or the effect it has on the cars left/right cornering power and balance. The Mission was (is) renowned for this exact problem and the handling quirks it causes if not addressed.

If you are having problems when running foams, I would firstly check your tyre diameters, the chances are you are running with tyres that have too tall a side wall for the foam hardness used, e.i. you are getting too much sidewall flex which is making the rear of the car break traction as the side loads build up.

I hope this helps.........
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