1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
04-12-2009, 05:59 PM
#4756
It's bad enough there is a spec motor, one of the interesting points about the class is that the majority of the equipment can be run in other classes as well, who will want to run a spec "slower" ESC in another class. I for one will not buy another ESC knowing I'm downgrading!!!
For those that want to slow the class down , how about an increase in the weight limit or a limit to the C rating of the Lipo, I switch from a 28C to a 40C I gain 0.3 per lap. I'd much rather have to switch batteries to be competitive in another class (like Rubber) than an ESC.
I reality, it IS racing and after you add the 'restrictor plates', we'll find another way to go fast, then we'll be having this discussion again!!
For those that want to slow the class down , how about an increase in the weight limit or a limit to the C rating of the Lipo, I switch from a 28C to a 40C I gain 0.3 per lap. I'd much rather have to switch batteries to be competitive in another class (like Rubber) than an ESC.
I reality, it IS racing and after you add the 'restrictor plates', we'll find another way to go fast, then we'll be having this discussion again!!
The one thing on ESC's that might be productive is not to allow variable timing like on the SPX. Those are just coming out and not so many people have them, but it needs to be done now.
Maybe also move the gearing on 21.5's up to 4.5.
As far as the 27t goes, unless you are willing to invest the time to cut comms and maintain the motor at a high level then you're just not going to be competitive. Progress is the way of the world and there is only so much you can do to make older technology competitive. I'm not saying its right, but that's the way it is.
04-12-2009, 06:14 PM
#4757
That's a big duh moment for me! 
The 1s idea is interesting, but is it really going to level the playing field or just put the 21.5's at a complete disadvantage? Or would the 1s be good for the 17.5's (which would be cool because then I'd get that instead of my 21.5 for RCGT - I only run lipo now)?
The 1s idea is interesting, but is it really going to level the playing field or just put the 21.5's at a complete disadvantage? Or would the 1s be good for the 17.5's (which would be cool because then I'd get that instead of my 21.5 for RCGT - I only run lipo now)?
04-12-2009, 07:05 PM
#4758
That's a big duh moment for me! The 1s idea is interesting, but is it really going to level the playing field or just put the 21.5's at a complete disadvantage? Or would the 1s be good for the 17.5's (which would be cool because then I'd get that instead of my 21.5 for RCGT - I only run lipo now)?
The 1s idea is interesting, but is it really going to level the playing field or just put the 21.5's at a complete disadvantage? Or would the 1s be good for the 17.5's (which would be cool because then I'd get that instead of my 21.5 for RCGT - I only run lipo now)?First thought: "I wonder why the hell they didn't put a balance tap on this thing."
Second thought: "JEEZUS you're an idiot. It's one freakin' cell. Did anyone see me?"
I'm just glad I didn't ask someone--I'd never be able to show my face in Denver again.
As far as "competitive", etc, I don't know. We're going to test the 1s LiPo with a 13.5 motor here to see how it compares with the 4-cell / 27T we mandate here. If it pans out like the preliminary tests of 1s / 13.5 vs. 4-cell / 17.5 in 1/12 there may be hope. I know a couple guys here would REALLY like to get rid of round cells too. I'm stuck with 'em for at least another year since there's no way we'll do anything to our 1/12 Stock class, battery-wise, for next season even if ROAR do (as I anticipate) adopt them for their 2010 rule book.
We should probably test 4-cell / 17.5 into the mix too if we're going to go. The only way we'll incorporate 2s / 21.5 here, though, is as a separate class and I don't think there are enough folks interested in doing it. I'm set, of course, but no one else is or seems overly inclined to mess (much) with what's working.
04-12-2009, 07:15 PM
#4759
Well I just got a TC3 setup for VTA off Ebay, and it arrived yesterday. Unfortunately it's not in very good shape, and the item description was a bit misleading. I think I'm going to put a p2kpro in it. What is a decent 4 cell battery pack to get ?
04-12-2009, 07:24 PM
#4760
Check the 4 sale section. Lots of people selling off 4 and 6 cell packs in great shape. Remember, 2 six cell packs can be made into 3 four cell packs easily. Anything over 3300mah is probably a good bet.
04-12-2009, 07:48 PM
#4762
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (16)
Do you guys really think by adding a 1 cell battery option, limiting rules to certain esc's further alienates existing racers.
There are a ton of new and used 2 cell lipo packs available. Why on earth would you want to start a new debate for 1 cell lipos?
Why allow only 1 esc to be run? Why shut the door on other manufactures that contribute to the RC industry? Once that happens and there is less competition prices will go up again and there will be less reasons to improve a product.
As long as we are entertaining having only 1 esc in the class, why not limit it to 1 style of chassis also? Stupid right!?
If 27T works for an area.. AWESOME! The rest of the world has moved on. Keep reaping the benifits of everyone else upgrading. Sooner or later you will have to also...
In the meantime on a local level, as someone mentioned, add weights to the fastest cars to even things out. I believe there is another track doing that now. Anyone know who has that rule off hand?
The rules are simple... get the newbs running cheap 27 turn and help them, if they want to be competitive - they will go lipo and 21.5. If you want to run a national race, and you have to pay to drive and stay overnight somewhere, budget in the standard fast equipement or dont go. Simple as that!!
If you answer you just want to have 'fun', then take your own 27T nimh stuff or whatever other combinations you want to run .. and have FUN!! Easy answer...
This is racing!! Like another post said.. restrictor plate racing. The motor is the restrictor, you can only gear and time it so far before it goes Poof!
If you want an IROC style race .. then make it .. completely different from this TA class and see if it will work. See if the people want it. I'm guessing not!!
I tried hard not to post.. but there are a few old addages, 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' and 'the squeeky wheel gets the oil'. There is a lot of squeeky wheels here from what I read and nothing needs fixed..
All this talk of rule changes of being fair or not and wanting to further change the rules to include more combinations just confuses and frustrates the guys that come here looking to get into the class and make it more expensive if they find out later 1 combination is the fastest and they have to buy new again.
I read on another thread that a guy said 'how disgusted he was being in this thread' (in a matter of words) and 'spoke about all the petty Btches'.
He still likes TA but feels, as I do, this thread is moving away from helping the newer racers and trying to reengineer the class.
In summary:
For New racers reading this. The class is really cool and most the people are cool. Buy a 2 cell lipo and a 21.5 and race like 90% of the rest of the class IF you can afford it. If you can't afford it, buy some used old 27T motors and NIMH batteries and have fun and learn how to be fast with driving and setup. By the time you have that figured out, you will willingly put the money down for brushless stuff or quit racing with a minimum investment.
Cheers
There are a ton of new and used 2 cell lipo packs available. Why on earth would you want to start a new debate for 1 cell lipos?
Why allow only 1 esc to be run? Why shut the door on other manufactures that contribute to the RC industry? Once that happens and there is less competition prices will go up again and there will be less reasons to improve a product.
As long as we are entertaining having only 1 esc in the class, why not limit it to 1 style of chassis also? Stupid right!?
If 27T works for an area.. AWESOME! The rest of the world has moved on. Keep reaping the benifits of everyone else upgrading. Sooner or later you will have to also...
In the meantime on a local level, as someone mentioned, add weights to the fastest cars to even things out. I believe there is another track doing that now. Anyone know who has that rule off hand?
The rules are simple... get the newbs running cheap 27 turn and help them, if they want to be competitive - they will go lipo and 21.5. If you want to run a national race, and you have to pay to drive and stay overnight somewhere, budget in the standard fast equipement or dont go. Simple as that!!
If you answer you just want to have 'fun', then take your own 27T nimh stuff or whatever other combinations you want to run .. and have FUN!! Easy answer...
This is racing!! Like another post said.. restrictor plate racing. The motor is the restrictor, you can only gear and time it so far before it goes Poof!
If you want an IROC style race .. then make it .. completely different from this TA class and see if it will work. See if the people want it. I'm guessing not!!
I tried hard not to post.. but there are a few old addages, 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' and 'the squeeky wheel gets the oil'. There is a lot of squeeky wheels here from what I read and nothing needs fixed..
All this talk of rule changes of being fair or not and wanting to further change the rules to include more combinations just confuses and frustrates the guys that come here looking to get into the class and make it more expensive if they find out later 1 combination is the fastest and they have to buy new again.
I read on another thread that a guy said 'how disgusted he was being in this thread' (in a matter of words) and 'spoke about all the petty Btches'.
He still likes TA but feels, as I do, this thread is moving away from helping the newer racers and trying to reengineer the class.
In summary:
For New racers reading this. The class is really cool and most the people are cool. Buy a 2 cell lipo and a 21.5 and race like 90% of the rest of the class IF you can afford it. If you can't afford it, buy some used old 27T motors and NIMH batteries and have fun and learn how to be fast with driving and setup. By the time you have that figured out, you will willingly put the money down for brushless stuff or quit racing with a minimum investment.
Cheers
Last edited by Spdjunky; 04-12-2009 at 08:26 PM.
04-12-2009, 08:17 PM
#4763
As one of those new racers that's exactly what I intend to do. I just recently got back into the hobby with offroad stuff (Slash, T4) and am using NIMH/brushed motors. I just built an SC10 and have my first ever brushless (Novak 17.5) system on order. Should be here tomorrow.
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
04-12-2009, 08:21 PM
#4764
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (16)
As one of those new racers that's exactly what I intend to do. I just recently got back into the hobby with offroad stuff (Slash, T4) and am using NIMH/brushed motors. I just built an SC10 and have my first ever brushless (Novak 17.5) system on order. Should be here tomorrow.
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
There are a ton of TC3's, it used to be one of the easier cars to buy until TA came out. lol Great idea using your old stuff in it!!
There are setups everywhere for them and if you ask in here I am sure some guys will give some pointers on it.
John
04-12-2009, 08:27 PM
#4765
In summary:
For New racers reading this. The class is really cool and most the people are cool. Buy a 2 cell lipo and a 21.5 and race like 90% of the rest of the class IF you can afford it. If you can't afford it, buy some used old 27T motors and NIMH batteries and have fun and learn how to be fast with driving and setup. By the time you have that figured out, you will willingly put the money down for brushless stuff or quit racing with a minimum investment.
Cheers
no more talk about rules motors esc 21.5's...the Godfathers will change if they see fit...
why not talk about your race of the week...every week why not some of us chime in on the weekly race report on VTA...and lets take this thread in another direction...thanks...
04-12-2009, 08:36 PM
#4766
As one of those new racers that's exactly what I intend to do. I just recently got back into the hobby with offroad stuff (Slash, T4) and am using NIMH/brushed motors. I just built an SC10 and have my first ever brushless (Novak 17.5) system on order. Should be here tomorrow.
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
I'm going to just gut my T4 and put the old 27t/old ESC combo into my VTA TC3. I'm new to onroad so if I enjoy it, I intend to go lipo/brushless. Do you guys see alot of TC3's racing VTA, or is it mainly newer models ? Thanks,
Doug
my TC3...two separate championships to its credit
04-12-2009, 08:39 PM
#4767
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (16)
AMEN!...
no more talk about rules motors esc 21.5's...the Godfathers will change if they see fit...
why not talk about your race of the week...every week why not some of us chime in on the weekly race report on VTA...and lets take this thread in another direction...thanks...
no more talk about rules motors esc 21.5's...the Godfathers will change if they see fit...
why not talk about your race of the week...every week why not some of us chime in on the weekly race report on VTA...and lets take this thread in another direction...thanks...
04-12-2009, 08:39 PM
#4768
I got a great Idea
Why don't you guys come up to the Spring Fling in Saint Ignace Mi on the 24th and 25th of this month
It is going to be the largest Oval and Road Course event Around
Over 125 entries Great racin and Great fun to be had by all
I will make you all a deal that comes up to race
If you mention you seen it on this thread and the VTA is a Second class meaning you are racing something else also besides VTA your VTA entry is FREE
Email me for more into or click here http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...8&goto=newpost
I hope this is ok to put the link
I would love to have a Huge VTA turn out I am trying to get this class going in my town as it is a great class for PPL watching to want to get one
Thanks for your time
Casey Brake
promatchracer @ gmail dot com
Why don't you guys come up to the Spring Fling in Saint Ignace Mi on the 24th and 25th of this month
It is going to be the largest Oval and Road Course event Around
Over 125 entries Great racin and Great fun to be had by all
I will make you all a deal that comes up to race
If you mention you seen it on this thread and the VTA is a Second class meaning you are racing something else also besides VTA your VTA entry is FREE
Email me for more into or click here http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...8&goto=newpost
I hope this is ok to put the link
I would love to have a Huge VTA turn out I am trying to get this class going in my town as it is a great class for PPL watching to want to get one
Thanks for your time
Casey Brake
promatchracer @ gmail dot com
04-12-2009, 08:42 PM
#4769
AMEN!...
no more talk about rules motors esc 21.5's...the Godfathers will change if they see fit...
why not talk about your race of the week...every week why not some of us chime in on the weekly race report on VTA...and lets take this thread in another direction...thanks...
no more talk about rules motors esc 21.5's...the Godfathers will change if they see fit...
why not talk about your race of the week...every week why not some of us chime in on the weekly race report on VTA...and lets take this thread in another direction...thanks...
OK. So on that note I will make a shameless plug for our upcoming kick-off race for the outdoor season to any TA racers that want to come to very North-East Illinois (The Track@Harbor Hobbies in Winthrop Harbor, Illinois) on May 9th. Its an afternoon race and we will be running the mains under the lights. There are other classes as well. Here's a link to the race thread.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...r-hobbies.html
Hopefully we'll have a good TA turnout. thanks!
04-12-2009, 08:43 PM
#4770
I got a great Idea
Why don't you guys come up to the Spring Fling in Saint Ignace Mi on the 24th and 25th of this month
It is going to be the largest Oval and Road Course event Around
Over 125 entries Great racin and Great fun to be had by all
I will make you all a deal that comes up to race
If you mention you seen it on this thread and the VTA is a Second class meaning you are racing something else also besides VTA your VTA entry is FREE
Email me for more into or click here http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...8&goto=newpost
I hope this is ok to put the link
I would love to have a Huge VTA turn out I am trying to get this class going in my town as it is a great class for PPL watching to want to get one
Thanks for your time
Casey Brake
promatchracer @ gmail dot com
Why don't you guys come up to the Spring Fling in Saint Ignace Mi on the 24th and 25th of this month
It is going to be the largest Oval and Road Course event Around
Over 125 entries Great racin and Great fun to be had by all
I will make you all a deal that comes up to race
If you mention you seen it on this thread and the VTA is a Second class meaning you are racing something else also besides VTA your VTA entry is FREE
Email me for more into or click here http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...8&goto=newpost
I hope this is ok to put the link
I would love to have a Huge VTA turn out I am trying to get this class going in my town as it is a great class for PPL watching to want to get one
Thanks for your time
Casey Brake
promatchracer @ gmail dot com
HEY! You stole our race name!
must be great minds think alike....