1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
01-04-2012, 06:21 PM
as i was once told by a local 'fastguy' and Reedy ROC champ, for the motors we use, the higher C packs don't make a difference because the motors don't pull enough out of the packs to benefit from the higher C ratings..
so because of this tidbit of advice, i've stayed with my 'lowly' 35C reedy pack and have every bit as much power and performance then they guys that are running higher C rated packs
so because of this tidbit of advice, i've stayed with my 'lowly' 35C reedy pack and have every bit as much power and performance then they guys that are running higher C rated packs
01-04-2012, 07:14 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
You know sometimes if a fast guy puts vaseline on his motor wires and then wins a race, other people are going to try it to see if it works. Its better to just stay out of the head games.
Right now we enjoy the standard of one tire. You know if your buddy is faster than you, its not the tire he is using. Its something else.
Right now we enjoy the standard of one tire. You know if your buddy is faster than you, its not the tire he is using. Its something else.
Knowing that VTA will be run at the ROAR paved Nats this summer, another tire may be an option.
01-04-2012, 07:55 PM
The reason the alternatively treaded tires have never been approved is not that anyone actually expects there to be any advantage (or disadvantage), but to keep one more potential for PERCEPTION that you're being beaten because you didn't get this tread or that tread. If everyone is running the same exact tire there is no question.
Your question DOES bring up an interesting "challenge" though...ROAR specs the tire by dimensions and that tread must be showing. No other mfr. makes tires to these dimensions but HPI do, in fact, make two different treaded tires that meet ROAR's rules.
That said...all the smoke and hubbub about "ROAR won't go for a single mfr motor or tire" is likely meaningless noise. For YEARS there was a spec (i.e. one particular manufacturer's motor) at big races. Yes, even at ROAR nats. It was usually handled as a "handout motor", but the fact is that single mfr motors have been a fact of life as long as I've been in RC (26 years and counting...). Same with tires...there are "spec tires" at almost any rubber tire event. JACO blues have been the common choice for a few years, now the Sweep 32's seem to be taking over the "spec" duties.
Race organizers are allowed a LOT of latitude for these events, at least as far as Regionals go (our club has never put on a National event). For our Region 11 carpet champs in April we clearly identified that VTA would be run under USVTA rules and there was never a question about it.
Seems like a lot of hue and cry over what is really a non-issue...unless the organizers of the 2012 Nats are trying to rationalize not following USVTA guidelines.
Scottrik
01-04-2012, 07:58 PM
Tech Master
Simple answer is (not being a smart a**) the rules don't allow them. Longer answer is that choosing one spec tire keeps the field level and even. Costs go up when you have to have multiple tire sets for a single class. Leave tire problems to the tc guys. Besides I have been told that the performance tires wear even faster then the vta tires currently being used. While I am glad that roar has recognized vta I am starting to wonder if this is going to have some very ill side effects such as your tire inquiry. The debate seems like its going to become " well roar says its vta legal so why can't I use it". Keep this class simple guys. Its great as it is. No need to change.
Last edited by 6376vette; 01-04-2012 at 08:13 PM. Reason: wording
01-04-2012, 08:02 PM
Keep in mind that the only reason the ROAR rules are in any REAL substantive way "different" is that they haven't been updated since the change to the current rules (announced two years ago, in place 18 months now). I'm guessing that's one of the items on Rob K's plate now that he's the "electric chairman"...especially since he's the guy who got ROAR to adopt the VTA rules in the first place.
01-04-2012, 08:10 PM
Keep in mind that the only reason the ROAR rules are in any REAL substantive way "different" is that they haven't been updated since the change to the current rules (announced two years ago, in place 18 months now). I'm guessing that's one of the items on Rob K's plate now that he's the "electric chairman"...especially since he's the guy who got ROAR to adopt the VTA rules in the first place.
anywayssorry for hijacking the tread!!!!
01-04-2012, 08:18 PM
Tech Master
Keep in mind that the only reason the ROAR rules are in any REAL substantive way "different" is that they haven't been updated since the change to the current rules (announced two years ago, in place 18 months now). I'm guessing that's one of the items on Rob K's plate now that he's the "electric chairman"...especially since he's the guy who got ROAR to adopt the VTA rules in the first place.
Don't know if this is true just asking about what I heard.
01-04-2012, 08:49 PM
You are half correct Rob. When I wrote the original VTA rules with Scotty (Trackside Hobbies) in October of 2007, http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...ing-class.html (Scotrik had the same idea before me), the idea was to just have some fun without all the high tech wiz bang of the day with cool looking vintage cars.
Some people get it, some don't. I like to win as much or more than the other guy, but my philosophy on cheating is:
If I cheat and loose, that means I really suck, and my ego is way too fragile to handle that.
Therefore I will never cheat!
After a few months off, I went from one of the top 21.5 VTA guys, to a B main 25.5 VTA guy because I was behind the knowledge curve. I know what it feels like, believe me. Every time I had my butt handed to me, I looked inside to determine what "I" had missed, and every time I found what I missed and what could be done to improve.
In my years of experiences in RC, I found that there is very little rule breaking that goes on and the folks that complain the most about others success have not learned to dig deep to learn to improve the their set-up skills and driving skills to compete. Unless things have changed dramatically since I last turned a wheel, most VTA guys are very willing to share many of there insights on these subjects if someone asked them.
In my experience, I worked and studied hard for years and with the help of others and some luck thrown in I did pretty well racing RC. I found if and when you get to the top you may become the target of the "You Cheat" accusation few. After sharing set-up philosiphies and data, some of the same "You Cheat" folks rejected the facts, rejected the help, kept their special "personal" set-ups, struggled in the back, and kept firing the "Cheater" cause I can't beat you accusations. Others listened and learned and did much better.
There is only one winner at any given race, and I'll bet he works harder than most.
A good friend of mine with 26 motorcycle land speed records has a saying, "The harder you work, the luckier you get". (212 mph on a Sprotster in 1971 was his fastest)
If you keep getting bested, I suggest you bust your but and learn how to catch-up if it is important to you. If you don't want to do that, maybe RobK is correct on both accounts.
Some people get it, some don't. I like to win as much or more than the other guy, but my philosophy on cheating is:
If I cheat and loose, that means I really suck, and my ego is way too fragile to handle that.
Therefore I will never cheat!After a few months off, I went from one of the top 21.5 VTA guys, to a B main 25.5 VTA guy because I was behind the knowledge curve. I know what it feels like, believe me. Every time I had my butt handed to me, I looked inside to determine what "I" had missed, and every time I found what I missed and what could be done to improve.
In my years of experiences in RC, I found that there is very little rule breaking that goes on and the folks that complain the most about others success have not learned to dig deep to learn to improve the their set-up skills and driving skills to compete. Unless things have changed dramatically since I last turned a wheel, most VTA guys are very willing to share many of there insights on these subjects if someone asked them.
In my experience, I worked and studied hard for years and with the help of others and some luck thrown in I did pretty well racing RC. I found if and when you get to the top you may become the target of the "You Cheat" accusation few. After sharing set-up philosiphies and data, some of the same "You Cheat" folks rejected the facts, rejected the help, kept their special "personal" set-ups, struggled in the back, and kept firing the "Cheater" cause I can't beat you accusations. Others listened and learned and did much better.
There is only one winner at any given race, and I'll bet he works harder than most.
A good friend of mine with 26 motorcycle land speed records has a saying, "The harder you work, the luckier you get". (212 mph on a Sprotster in 1971 was his fastest)
If you keep getting bested, I suggest you bust your but and learn how to catch-up if it is important to you. If you don't want to do that, maybe RobK is correct on both accounts.
My advice: Spend less time wondering what others are doing to cheat, and more time learninghow to make yourself better!
01-04-2012, 08:56 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
[QUOTE=6376vette;10125176]Simple answer is (not being a smart a**) the rules don't allow them. Longer answer is that choosing one spec tire keeps the field level and even. Costs go up when you have to have multiple tire sets for a single class. Leave tire problems to the tc guys. Besides I have been told that the performance tires wear even faster then the vta tires currently being used.
The HPI "performance" vintage tires are the same rubber and cost as the standard HPI vintage tires. They WOULD NOT be a flavor of the week type of tire. I was asking because , at times, the standard tires will be out of stock, while the "performance" tires are sitting on the hobby shop shelf, collecting dust.
I guess my question is now, hey Robk... why do the rules don't allow them?
The HPI "performance" vintage tires are the same rubber and cost as the standard HPI vintage tires. They WOULD NOT be a flavor of the week type of tire. I was asking because , at times, the standard tires will be out of stock, while the "performance" tires are sitting on the hobby shop shelf, collecting dust.
I guess my question is now, hey Robk... why do the rules don't allow them?
01-04-2012, 11:00 PM
If I believe the order status at Tower Hobbies, they will still be on backorder till middle of this month. This isn't a VTA problem per se, but if you can't get the legal tires, you can't race, and that's no good for turnout.
01-04-2012, 11:02 PM
Simple answer is (not being a smart a**) the rules don't allow them. Longer answer is that choosing one spec tire keeps the field level and even. Costs go up when you have to have multiple tire sets for a single class. Leave tire problems to the tc guys. Besides I have been told that the performance tires wear even faster then the vta tires currently being used.
I guess my question is now, hey Robk... why do the rules don't allow them?
Just for all the reasons above. The original tire works fine, everybody knows exactly what it looks like, so there is no reason to have another tire added to the list.
I don't have any of the "performance" tire to look at, but one thing in the ROAR rules is a tread depth requirement of new tires. I do not know if the performance tire has the same tread depth (.5mm)
Honestly, I have never even bothered to try them simply because there really is no need outside of possible backorder issues you bring up. At the same time, once the three sets are gone off the shelves, the problem is exactly the same. Even if we allowed the second tire, there is no guarantee HPI will not run short on that one too, as it happens with the normal tire.
BTW the performance tire is on backorder at HPi too
01-04-2012, 11:22 PM
Don't shoot the messenger!
01-04-2012, 11:30 PM
I'm not worried about you. Inquiring minds want to know. Darkside is probably upset now that he only has 15 extra sets of tires in his race bag....