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Old 03-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #14056
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They work great. a little duct tape by the window and under the hood and they stay put. Also they don't interfere with the chassis or wiring.
Not only that, but you get two "drivers" in one package so you can share with your friends! (of course, one of the drivers is texting)
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #14057
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The only way to level the field and get closer racing is I believe to put a cap on the fdr, say stay with 4.0 The other way is to put a limit on the c rating on the lipos used in vta. 25c-40 c no higher. jm2cents
Capping the FDR does not level the playing field. All motors, ESCs, drive trains, etc. are not created equal. Allowing each driver to find the FDR that works best is a necessary setup option which takes a little experience and skill to get right. That is just part of the game. What happens when you cap the FDR and some cars still can't keep up with the pace?

Also, the C rating thing has been discussed over and over again here and the consensus is that it simply doesn't make a difference in VTA where the amp draws are relatively low. In most VTA cases, you simply won't see a difference in performance between a 25C 5000mah battery and a 50C 5000mah. Many have weighed in here with on-track testimony to this fact. I have tested it out with my own batteries as well and there is no difference.

If you truly want a class where everything is equal, then you would have to have equally prepped "hand-out" cars where people simply draw straws for what car they drive, like the IROQ races. Not really feasible in the hobby world. The VTA rules are very good where they are at. It's silly to keep making the same suggestions about FDRs and C ratings. The topic has just been beaten over and over again.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #14058
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Not only that, but you get two "drivers" in one package so you can share with your friends! (of course, one of the drivers is texting)
That's exactly what we did. Two for the price of one.

My buddy actually bought them and put them into the bodies. Of course he gave me the passenger and mounted him on the passenger side of the car to be funny. You know I had to leave him there. Turns out that since the battery is on the right side he actually mounts there better. Now my buddy has his on the right side too.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:19 PM   #14059
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http://www.teamassociated.com/cars_a...C4/Club_Racer/

looks like AE is paying attention....thanks SC and DC
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #14060
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http://www.teamassociated.com/cars_a...C4/Club_Racer/

looks like AE is paying attention....thanks SC and DC
Now if you included the Protoform J71 and if AE made a wheel and tire combo that fit the ROAR VTA rules, you could atleast use the rim with the HPI tires. That would only leave you needing the Novak Club 25.5 combo to be in business.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #14061
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Capping the FDR does not level the playing field. All motors, ESCs, drive trains, etc. are not created equal. Allowing each driver to find the FDR that works best is a necessary setup option which takes a little experience and skill to get right. That is just part of the game. What happens when you cap the FDR and some cars still can't keep up with the pace?
We capped the FDR at 3.7 on our large outdoor asphalt track and the results have been GREAT. The cars are almost identical in a straight line; the novak gear is more consistent than folks give them credit for. We had a few that were slightly slower, but almost all cases turned out to be motors that were not set to 45* timing (timing matters a LOT on a 160' straight); and in one case on a sprint2 we had a belt rubbing on the motor can.

As a track that's actually doing it - I would say it works fine.

It also makes sure that some of the older cars that have a very difficult time getting ratios below 3.6 or so can still be raced.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #14062
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Now if you included the Protoform J71 and if AE made a wheel and tire combo that fit the ROAR VTA rules, you could atleast use the rim with the HPI tires. That would only leave you needing the Novak Club 25.5 combo to be in business.
Ill pass on ROAR rules period...

this TC4 is aimed at USVTA racers to give a chassis option for our class...since alot of guys use TC3/4 cars in VTA, its opens the door to get a NEW car for under $150...and its for mainly us...

thank you again AE

and the HPI driver is the pooh
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #14063
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guys I dont see us going back to a set FDR....Its very hard to tech and its very different for most cars...even cars with the same setup and make...

case...me and Bubba have the TC6, both running box stock setup, and similar equiment...but Im faster with his car....whats the difference?...both timming on the motor and fdr is the same....

the difference is my sweet spot on my car is 3.8 fdr and his is 3.6 fdr...now I can turn the fast laps with either car...

the key is to find a FDR and Timming for "YOUR" motor and car...and ESC...find it...it just takes some looking....and once you find it, you wont have the need to buy stuff to go faster...unless thats your thing...

The USVTA rules are great the way they are.....lets just race and have some fun....or get 2nd and 3rd jobs ....
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:15 PM   #14064
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Beemerfan....u are wrong sir. You can tell the difference between c-ratings.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #14065
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Why can I not click on the "last page" button and get to the last page of this thread? This is the on ly thread on the whole forum that doesn't work for me. Am I the only one? It does it on all computers.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #14066
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yep. happens on the smart phone too. with over900 pages the server must get dizzy..lol
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:51 PM   #14067
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It's good to see Associated doing some marketing toward spec class racing. Although the TC4 has been around for awhile it's nice to see a chassis manufacturer take aim at a great segment of RC. Now if I could only pursuade Schumacher to do some similar advertising with the MI1 !!
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:46 PM   #14068
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Why can I not click on the "last page" button and get to the last page of this thread? This is the on ly thread on the whole forum that doesn't work for me. Am I the only one? It does it on all computers.

Weird Mine works fine
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #14069
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Has anybody tried using on of these HPI #104815 Inner Body Sets as a driver figure in their VTA? The description says these drivers are for the 1/12 scale Mini Trophy truck. Does that mean these drivers are smaller than 1/10 scale?
It's what I use. I just shoe-goo the helmet part to the inside of the roof. I've never had one come off. I like to never got it to come loose when moving from one body to the other so there is no worry about it coming loose on a race.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:22 PM   #14070
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Beemerfan....u are wrong sir. You can tell the difference between c-ratings.
Perhaps you can. We may as well leave it at that. Anyone wanting a history of this debate can read back through the pages of this thread where it's been covered several times.

For the benefit of anyone that still doesn't know what a C rating is and how it impacts performance, I'll put my "know-it-all" hat on and explain it once more. This is a public forum so anyone is welcome to "fact check" me.

C stands for capacity. A C rating is the amount of current your battery is capable of delivering represented as a multiplier of its capacity. So a 5 amp battery (5000 mah for those of us in the hobby world) rated at 25C can deliver 125 amps of current (25 x 5 = 125). Those of us that have done the math have figured that a VTA car has an average current draw of 6 to 12 amps during a typical race. 12 amps is less than 3C on a 5 amp pack. I don't know anyone that has installed any equipment in his car to measure the peak current draw under hard acceleration. But for argument's sake, say it's 10 times the average. So in this case your car draws 120 amps of current. It wouldn't matter if you have a battery that can deliver 150 amps because the car is only drawing 120. Now it's doubtful that VTA cars ever draw this much current, even in spikes. The 14 gauge wire most of our ESCs are wired with is rated for something like 30 amps of continuous current. If we drew 120 amps for any amount of time, we'd be looking at burnt wire, melted solder joints and smoked electronics.

That's all academic. In the real world there are differences in battery packs. Mostly because manufacturers have no standard for C ratings and there is a lot of inconsistency between and even within a single manufacturer's line of products. The results aren't always what you'd think. I have a 25C cheapo Yeah Racing 5000 mah battery that has outperformed my 40C Thunder Power pack that I paid 3x as much for since they were both new. I periodically rate them on a Duratrax Ice charger at a 10 amp discharge rate and the results are confirmed on the track. Factors like the quality of the cells and internal resistance have as much of an effect on performance as C ratings do.

The bottom line for me is that I've been done with expensive battery packs for quite some time now. I don't spend more than $30 - $40 on a pack and I've won plenty of races with those cheap packs against guys that were running much "better" name brand packs with higher C ratings than mine. I qualified my earlier statement about C ratings as "in VTA" because in this class, suspension setup and maintaining corner speed matters a whole lot more than acceleration. "Point and shoot" drivers don't do well in VTA because the cars simply don't accelerate well compared to other TC classes. Corner speed is the key to winning and battery / motor / esc combo's simply don't make as much of a difference as a good suspension setup.

So has this "dead horse" been beaten enough yet?
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