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Old 02-23-2012, 06:33 AM   #13786
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Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
This response is not meant in a harsh/bashing kind of way, so think of it as a conversation over a beer - lol



Well, if someones idea of fun is grinding on a shiny new $90 motor, spending $50 on "upgrade" parts for a $90 motor, then the rules actually do state what kind of fun you can have! On the other hand, I think everyone is cool with on-track practice time?? Improving driving and having fun racing/driving is what this class is about.



Agreed that it is racing, but there are different types of racing. There are NASCAR cup cars where it is a massive R&D type of racing, and then there is CMC (Camaro-Mustang Challenge) where racers dyno the motors to prove they are UNDER the horsepower limit, and generally don't touch the motor all year long except for maintenance. VTA is designed to be more like the latter - the whole point of the class is you can bolt in a stock motor and run it until the bearings wear out, and everyone can have the same amount of power without going to crazy levels of effort (like hacking up or spending $50 to upgrade a new motor).



VTA is a spec class. It is not meant for the guy who wants to try different rotors, drill or grind on their expensive motor, thats what touring is for. The "problem" with throwing the "spec" recipe out the window is suddenly VTA just becomes a slow touring car class, but half the reason VTA is as successful as it is, is because it's NOT touring car. The very fact that you don't have to worry about ramping/timing ESCs, software of the month, motor of the month, tweak/tune/hack of the month is part of the successful formula. You can bring your old TC3 to the track with its old havoc and 17.5SS, leave the laptop and expensive stuff at home, and still be competitive and still have fun. Once you take that away, then most of the guys start staying home or not having time to "keep up", and then the few guys who tweaked till eternity now find themselves in a dead class.

This exact pattern has happened many times in RC history. For example, I don't know about your area, but in ours, spec slash was HUGE (and was also huge fun!!), but the limits of the rules kept getting pushed and the further we creeped away from spec, the less guys came; till the point where it's just a shell of it's former self. The same thing happened with 17.5 touring car in our area - very popular, then ramping came along which killed 13.5 and also raised the bar to even race in 17.5; and now 17.5 is a shell of it's former self too. Ramping is now "out of fashion" for 17.5 but it will take years to get all those racers back; I don't want to see the same thing happen to VTA!



Some guys will share some of their "secrets", this is already a barrier to entry into RC. Who do you ask? who do they trust? which guy is misleading you, which guy is being honest?
I agree with a lot of what you said. Guess I should be a little clearer in my earlier post. I was trying to say what is wrong with people pushing the limit of their equipment and trying new things......within the written rules. Just seems like there has been a lot of bashing of the people who are trying to learn and understand the car. There seems to be the idea that if you don't build it out of the box and throw it on the track then you are doing vta all wrong. Just tired of seeing pepole get attacked for trying to improve their cars within the rule set.

I like the rules the way they are and I am very grateful to have such a wonderful class to race. I don't agree with grinding motors changing cans and rotors etc etc but I do want to learn what I can about my equipment and the options even if I can't use them. Makes me a better racer as a whole. Also makes me a better teacher to the new guys coming into the class.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:59 AM   #13787
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same about the Xdrive GTB2...why buy it till its approved?..
....Because most of the Novak speedos on the approved list have been discontinued.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #13788
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Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
Well, if someones idea of fun is grinding on a shiny new $90 motor, spending $50 on "upgrade" parts for a $90 motor, then the rules actually do state what kind of fun you can have! On the other hand, I think everyone is cool with on-track practice time?? Improving driving and having fun racing/driving is what this class is about.
This is part of why this whole discussion started, that makes me think all of my posts were skimmed over, and not actually read. I fully support the VTA rules, these included, and have never done anything to my motor. This is not about buying upgrades and illegal or questionable parts. Dyno seems to be a bad word with VTA, but is it any difference from using a setup station? All you are doing is putting numbers to your equipment. Cost is not the issue here, as a Dyno is $50. A Hudy setup station is $300. I know of a dozen Hudy stations at our track, and there is 2 dynos. That is not counting the numerous Integy and 3Racing setups as well.

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Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
VTA is a spec class. It is not meant for the guy who wants to try different rotors, drill or grind on their expensive motor, thats what touring is for. The "problem" with throwing the "spec" recipe out the window is suddenly VTA just becomes a slow touring car class, but half the reason VTA is as successful as it is, is because it's NOT touring car. The very fact that you don't have to worry about ramping/timing ESCs, software of the month, motor of the month, tweak/tune/hack of the month is part of the successful formula. You can bring your old TC3 to the track with its old havoc and 17.5SS, leave the laptop and expensive stuff at home, and still be competitive and still have fun. Once you take that away, then most of the guys start staying home or not having time to "keep up", and then the few guys who tweaked till eternity now find themselves in a dead class.

This exact pattern has happened many times in RC history. For example, I don't know about your area, but in ours, spec slash was HUGE (and was also huge fun!!), but the limits of the rules kept getting pushed and the further we creeped away from spec, the less guys came; till the point where it's just a shell of it's former self. The same thing happened with 17.5 touring car in our area - very popular, then ramping came along which killed 13.5 and also raised the bar to even race in 17.5; and now 17.5 is a shell of it's former self too. Ramping is now "out of fashion" for 17.5 but it will take years to get all those racers back; I don't want to see the same thing happen to VTA!

Some guys will share some of their "secrets", this is already a barrier to entry into RC. Who do you ask? who do they trust? which guy is misleading you, which guy is being honest?
Your experience with spec racing is the same as mine, but what you see as the issue is the opposite to what I saw. Spec racing starts out cheap, and gets a lot of people early on by it's very nature. It is usually a lower cost of entry class where the fast guy and the slow guy are separated by seconds, not laps. You are not required to have the best and fastest, and you can still be competitive.

That is when the same thing that always happens in any spec class, starts to happen. The fast guys start to out pace the rest. It is little things to start, maybe a little better setup, or a more aggressive FDR. Maybe one guy picks up a new motor and it has a little better numbers (whether he knows it or not) and now he is pulling the others. The rest start trying to push the limits to compete, maybe trying a new motor, or just pushing that old one till it burns up. In online gaming, we called it min/maxing. It was getting the exact right combination of gear for that specific circumstance. Now people have different gearing setups for different tracks, different bodies, maybe even different chassis'. The gap begins to widen between those who put the extra time and money in, and those that do not. You have the A-Main guys pulling away, the D-Main guys just having fun because driving is fun, and the majority in the middle getting frustrated and quitting because they want to compete, but can't.

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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
I agree with a lot of what you said. Guess I should be a little clearer in my earlier post. I was trying to say what is wrong with people pushing the limit of their equipment and trying new things......within the written rules. Just seems like there has been a lot of bashing of the people who are trying to learn and understand the car. There seems to be the idea that if you don't build it out of the box and throw it on the track then you are doing vta all wrong. Just tired of seeing pepole get attacked for trying to improve their cars within the rule set.

I like the rules the way they are and I am very grateful to have such a wonderful class to race. I don't agree with grinding motors changing cans and rotors etc etc but I do want to learn what I can about my equipment and the options even if I can't use them. Makes me a better racer as a whole. Also makes me a better teacher to the new guys coming into the class.
Thank you Scott. I am not sure where the assumption comes in that wanting to go faster means wanting to cheat. Last night, my car did not have the pace of the front runners. I fell from 2nd to fifth in the first qualifier after one bobble, and just not being able to maintain the pace after the first 4 min. Second qualifier was completely clean, and finished 4th, qualified 5th in the A. I had a good start, was in third, when the 4th place driver got impatient, and flipped me over and into a wall, breaking one of my outdrives. Was running fifth, and then the 6th place driver caught me (3wd and only one front wheel pulling on a spool makes things interesting), and pummeled me into the wall and on my lid again. Finished 8th or 9th, as I just started getting out of the way, since the aggression factor was up for some reason in everyone.

So yes, I want to go faster. I want to compete with the local racers, and some of the regional ones. I don't expect to go beat Myron, or even finish on the same lap as him, but I am setting my sights higher then 9th place. I will tweak, test, change, and practice, and do everything I can within the rules to become a better, faster, more consistent, and more courteous driver. And I will continue to, as I always have, help everyone and anyone that asks, to the extent of my ability, to do the same.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #13789
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Excuse my ignorance but I have never seen a RC "Dyno". I know what a 1:1 Dyno is but never seen 1 for RC. Searching Amain resulted in nothing also.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:10 AM   #13790
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....Because most of the Novak speedos on the approved list have been discontinued.
plus, from what i was told when I asked NovakTwo, all the new GTB2's will have this feature
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #13791
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Excuse my ignorance but I have never seen a RC "Dyno". I know what a 1:1 Dyno is but never seen 1 for RC. Searching Amain resulted in nothing also.
http://www.nexusracing.com/product_i...72c4833281f3cb
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:21 AM   #13792
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Thank you sir. Ouch $115...Would be fun to have but out of my price range for something I dont know how to change lol. Found some youtube videos on RC car dynos you can build at home. Depending on the cost I may try 1 of those for kicks.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:43 AM   #13793
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plus, from what i was told when I asked NovakTwo, all the new GTB2's will have this feature
Correct; we have replaced all earlier versions of our GTBs with the GTB2-X esc. All GTB2s returned for trade/exchange are replaced with this X-Drive version; we no longer manufacture, or RMF, any earlier GTBs.

Due to microprocessor un-availability (due to the Japanese earthquake last year), we also had to discontinue our Havocs (1S, 2S and 3S) and our Mongoose controllers (plus Goat 2s, 3s, and Rooster Crawler escs).

Therefore, many of our spec-only escs are no longer available. These earlier escs have been replaced with our GTB2-X, Edge 2S and our upcoming Club--all non-timing controllers (hopefully) suited to VTA.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:11 AM   #13794
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Sorry if this has been asked a ton of times but I haven't found a good answer in my searches yet.

Just getting my feet wet in VTA racing and I have a TC5 VTA setup on route to me now.

I have a buddy looking for a car as well.

My question is this: Is the HPI Sprint2 a good starting point for a VTA car or is one better off finding something else?

He has a couple older Losi's but I don't know if parts are around to make them work.

Thoughts from those who have been around more.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #13795
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Sorry if this has been asked a ton of times but I haven't found a good answer in my searches yet.

Just getting my feet wet in VTA racing and I have a TC5 VTA setup on route to me now.

I have a buddy looking for a car as well.

My question is this: Is the HPI Sprint2 a good starting point for a VTA car or is one better off finding something else?

He has a couple older Losi's but I don't know if parts are around to make them work.

Thoughts from those who have been around more.
The HPI Sprint 2 Sport with '69 Camaro Body is a great starting point for a VTA car. I bought one of these last year and raced it in VTA for 3 months. Considering the difficulty of finding brand new VTA tires right now, if you get a Sprint 2 Sport w/ '69 Camaro body then you also get a full set of mounted VTA tires too. Now the HPI Sprint 2 is a beginner's car, so don't expect it to handle like some of the other top-end cars that may be racing in VTA with you. The HPI Sprint 2 has a higher center of gravity than most other cars (including the Losi XXX-S). Also parts availability for the HPI Sprint 2 is abundant at my LHS.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #13796
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Sorry if this has been asked a ton of times but I haven't found a good answer in my searches yet.

Just getting my feet wet in VTA racing and I have a TC5 VTA setup on route to me now.

I have a buddy looking for a car as well.

My question is this: Is the HPI Sprint2 a good starting point for a VTA car or is one better off finding something else?

He has a couple older Losi's but I don't know if parts are around to make them work.

Thoughts from those who have been around more.
It is a great car with solid parts availability, and especially starting with the VTA style one, you are almost legal out of the box (add ESC and motor). Most clubs will also let you run it box stock just to get your feet wet. When someone comes out with a true RTR VTA car, i have the feeling they are going to do very well with it.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:36 AM   #13797
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It is a great car with solid parts availability, and especially starting with the VTA style one, you are almost legal out of the box (add ESC and motor). Most clubs will also let you run it box stock just to get your feet wet. When someone comes out with a true RTR VTA car, i have the feeling they are going to do very well with it.
What VTA cars do Tower, or A-Main carry---not RTR, but affordable and suitable for new-comers and anyone getting into USVTA on a budget.

Our new 25.5 Club Combo would be an ideal product for some reseller to offer in combination with a car (or cars) for VTA. We do not have the resources to do the RTR-ing ourselves, but we would be willing to work with our distributors to encourage them to address this segment.

We started shipping our customized, USVTA items to distributors, beginning with our EDGE 2S items; they are now more available to LHSs around the country.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #13798
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Quick question about the USGT Class Rules (which are listed on the same web page as the US VTA Rules - http://www.usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html).

What does FWD mean? It says under the USGT body specifications "Any 190mm or 200mm body. Body can be any body that is NOT on the ROAR T2 body list. FWD encouraged to use FWD bodies."

Does it mean Front-Wheel-Drive?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #13799
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What VTA cars do Tower, or A-Main carry---not RTR, but affordable and suitable for new-comers and anyone getting into USVTA on a budget.

Our new 25.5 Club Combo would be an ideal product for some reseller to offer in combination with a car (or cars) for VTA. We do not have the resources to do the RTR-ing ourselves, but we would be willing to work with our distributors to encourage them to address this segment.

We started shipping our customized, USVTA items to distributors, beginning with our EDGE 2S items; they are now more available to LHSs around the country.
Not that those distributors carry them, but the Sakura Zero S, $120 retail price for a belt drive, 4wd TC with dual gear diffs. Upgrades are plentiful and cheap, and several us distributors now. Would be an awesome first VTA car (has been for many at my track, and is what I upgraded to from a TC3).
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #13800
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Quick question about the USGT Class Rules (which are listed on the same web page as the US VTA Rules - http://www.usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html).

What does FWD mean? It says under the USGT body specifications "Any 190mm or 200mm body. Body can be any body that is NOT on the ROAR T2 body list. FWD encouraged to use FWD bodies."

Does it mean Front-Wheel-Drive?
Correct, Tamiya FF03, the Sakura front wheel drive, and Serpent just announced one as well.
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