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Old 01-02-2012, 07:08 PM   #13171
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Originally Posted by Tekin Prez View Post
I disagree that anyone could make changes to our code. Some independent hackers have already looked at most of the controllers and reported back that they are fully encrypted and the firmware cannot be extracted in any useable form that can be changed and put back. The spec mode settings are hardcoded and cannot be changed simply by hacking the communications software.

I do agree that someone could reflash the esc with a completely different firmware. If they can write something from the ground up that is as good as what we have I would like to meet them. That would be a considerable amount of effort to cheat in a class that is all about slow and fun.

Non programmable esc’s can also be reflashed, but no one can actually tech it. They can be reprogrammed by the people that made them or if you choose to believe it by a talented hacker. At least programmable esc’s can be verified and even updated with a version that you know is right. If you really believe someone would go to this much effort to cheat than the dumb boxes do not really provide any more protection. It is a false sense of security and simply fractures the class.

I gave up long ago on trying to change anyone’s mind in the USVTA. If we want to play we can always offer an esc that meets the rules. I am not asking to be accepted to the USVTA. I am pointing out that the broader market does not agree and sticking up for the decision at the ROAR Nats and other major events to include everyone.

I also think the motor rules are unnecessary in these setups and with the 25.5 winds. We will get a good look at all of them running together at this race and see once again if it really matters. However I do enjoy thinking that anything other than a Novak motor will be faster and an unfair advantage. They have been taking a few too many jabs at us lately…

The spirit of the class is to have fun. When you have too many rules it simply assures that someone is always mad about something. All spec classes suffer this problem. So you pick the least amount of rules for the things that really matter and let the rest roll, in the spirit of fun.

Tekin Prez
Hey Jim - any chance Tekin will put out a non-updatable version of the RS?? huh, huh, huh,???

that would definitely end all the bull crap 'hacker-this or hacker-that' that always shows up you know something, that would kick back an error in a hotwire if/when it gets attached?
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:02 PM   #13172
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There isn't an answer to the esc argument. If a program was written and downloaded burned or any other method of storing it can be changed or modified. Weather this is easy or not is not the issue. There are people who will break the rules just to cheat. If you don't believe that then why do people write computer viruses just to cause trouble? They could make serious money with that level of knowledge and creativity but they choose to break the rules. Its no different with our hobby. Fortunately most racers want to follow the rules, make friends, and have fun. If someone is taking a rc car race so seriously then they probably get mad when they lose all of their online fake poker chips too.

I like the vta rules as they are written but I will be interested to see how other esc and motors compare to the Novak setup.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #13173
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This is weird. Did anybody race VTA this weekend? I did and had a great time.
no racing but we had a good practice day and a few of us got our cars all dialed in for the 3rd leg of the grandslam series at the big rug in indy in 2 weeks.

im sorta glad this thread is acting up because i feel like i need hip weighters to read it latley (if u catch my drift)
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:20 PM   #13174
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There isn't an answer to the esc argument. If a program was written and downloaded burned or any other method of storing it can be changed or modified. Weather this is easy or not is not the issue. There are people who will break the rules just to cheat. If you don't believe that then why do people write computer viruses just to cause trouble? They could make serious money with that level of knowledge and creativity but they choose to break the rules. Its no different with our hobby. Fortunately most racers want to follow the rules, make friends, and have fun. If someone is taking a rc car race so seriously then they probably get mad when they lose all of their online fake poker chips too.

I like the vta rules as they are written but I will be interested to see how other esc and motors compare to the Novak setup.
by your theory, EVERY speedo on the market is capable of being 're-burned' and therefore cheatable...so it don't matter if the firmware is flashable or not - they all have programs 'burned' onto the chips inside, thereby (according to you) means you can cheat with them...

its not all the simple or cut & dry
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:22 PM   #13175
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no racing but we had a good practice day and a few of us got our cars all dialed in for the 3rd leg of the grandslam series at the big rug in indy in 2 weeks.

im sorta glad this thread is acting up because i feel like i need hip weighters to read it latley (if u catch my drift)
hey alex - is the setup you use on your TCX universal?? or do you use a different one for each track?? i'm looking for a starting point for my tcx that i just decided to us for vta
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:32 PM   #13176
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one setup seems to work every where with just minor tinkering shock positions and inner camber link shims


ill get in to you tomorow
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:42 PM   #13177
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by your theory, EVERY speedo on the market is capable of being 're-burned' and therefore cheatable...so it don't matter if the firmware is flashable or not - they all have programs 'burned' onto the chips inside, thereby (according to you) means you can cheat with them...

its not all the simple or cut & dry
You are exactly right. It may not be easy but anything that is programmed can be reprogrammed. Even the vta legal escs
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:19 PM   #13178
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You are exactly right. It may not be easy but anything that is programmed can be reprogrammed. Even the vta legal escs
Amen.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #13179
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Shut up and have fun racing.
^That should be a USVTA rule ^
The sign below should be the official sign for those who keep going on and on about the simplest rules ever made for RC Car Racing...
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #13180
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?... Over. There are currently 865 pages in this thread, but the redirect tries to point to page 869 :wtf:
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:54 AM   #13181
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you have to have special clearance to get the last 10 pages. The information there is not suitable to all grades.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:42 AM   #13182
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Wow, I feel like I just got kicked in the nuts. I figured people would be excited that we managed to move closer to USVTA with the motor choice, not promoting boycotting the race because it isn't exactly what they think is best.
1. I want to thank you for what you have done both in this race and for the compatability of the VTA classes in general. I realize that you are limited by the requirement of brand neutrality that does not confine the USVTA, and I recognize your efforts to make an equivalent rule set within your available parameters.

2. I dont think Battman intended to get people to boycott your race. I just dont see that as being his purpose. I do see it as him saying, "This is what it is. If you dont like it dont go."

3. I have had one summer of trying to promote a track. So I have a fresh taste of working my ass off just to feel neglected and blown off. Its better to just look toward the guys that DO appreciate you and dont worry about the others. The other thing to do to avoid feeling the way you describe is to wear a cup.

Best of luck.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:42 PM   #13183
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Shut up and have fun racing.
You are half correct Rob. When I wrote the original VTA rules with Scotty (Trackside Hobbies) in October of 2007, http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...ing-class.html (Scotrik had the same idea before me), the idea was to just have some fun without all the high tech wiz bang of the day with cool looking vintage cars.

Some people get it, some don't. I like to win as much or more than the other guy, but my philosophy on cheating is:
If I cheat and loose, that means I really suck, and my ego is way too fragile to handle that. Therefore I will never cheat!

After a few months off, I went from one of the top 21.5 VTA guys, to a B main 25.5 VTA guy because I was behind the knowledge curve. I know what it feels like, believe me. Every time I had my butt handed to me, I looked inside to determine what "I" had missed, and every time I found what I missed and what could be done to improve.

In my years of experiences in RC, I found that there is very little rule breaking that goes on and the folks that complain the most about others success have not learned to dig deep to learn to improve the their set-up skills and driving skills to compete. Unless things have changed dramatically since I last turned a wheel, most VTA guys are very willing to share many of there insights on these subjects if someone asked them.

In my experience, I worked and studied hard for years and with the help of others and some luck thrown in I did pretty well racing RC. I found if and when you get to the top you may become the target of the "You Cheat" accusation few. After sharing set-up philosiphies and data, some of the same "You Cheat" folks rejected the facts, rejected the help, kept their special "personal" set-ups, struggled in the back, and kept firing the "Cheater" cause I can't beat you accusations. Others listened and learned and did much better.

There is only one winner at any given race, and I'll bet he works harder than most.

A good friend of mine with 26 motorcycle land speed records has a saying, "The harder you work, the luckier you get". (212 mph on a Sprotster in 1971 was his fastest)

If you keep getting bested, I suggest you bust your but and learn how to catch-up if it is important to you. If you don't want to do that, maybe RobK is correct on both accounts.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #13184
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I'm getting ready! New bodies to paint, driver figures on the way (I finally broke down and got a couple) and the old TC3s are running well with the 25.5 and Cirtix setups. I just need to run a few thousand laps to sharpen my rusty skills!

On the "What's allowed at a ROAR Event" segment of this thread, I predict that all of the USVTA racers will still dominate the class in March. They have their gear dialed in, their chassis dialed in and have the skills to win. Besides, who in their right mind would go out and buy all new gear if they are only going to run it once? Oh yeah, that's right, the guy who doesn't ever smile when he races will. And will have less to smile about when he still can't figure out why he still can't win. I expect to be in the lowest main and leave with a smile. If my racing goes better than that, It's a win for me.

Marty, thank you for your post! Sage wisdom indeed.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:15 PM   #13185
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?... Over. There are currently 865 pages in this thread, but the redirect tries to point to page 869 :wtf:
you have to have special clearance to get the last 10 pages. The information there is not suitable to all grades.
I think you're right Jason. The info on those invisible pages are for grades 6 and higher. I'm still in Pre-K, so it will be a while before I can see that stuff.
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