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Old 09-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #12466
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Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
Uh-oh. Looks like someone needs to re-write the rule-book to eliminate ambiguities, eh?

The sad thing about this twist on the debate is all we're doing is arguing semantics, not focusing on the details that matter: What specifications effectively constitute a "touring car chassis"? I'd rather discuss details such as height, weight, suspension, transmission, etc. than wank around with word-play.
There is no "debate", and Wank around all you want...... But, what part of this do you not understand???

Four Wheel Drive Touring Car Chassis Only.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:33 AM   #12467
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As long as there are rules, there will always be the need to refine them. Either to eliminate ambiguities or to make it easier to make inclusions/exclusions. In the last 2 days, I concurred with a previous poster that there was at least one ambiguity with the interpretation of the rules, and pointed out another. Whose fault is that, ours?
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:40 AM   #12468
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DARKSIDE: any chance you could post the chassis and body list from the A main of your big race? Thanks
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:49 AM   #12469
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Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
As long as there are rules, there will always be the need to refine them. Either to eliminate ambiguities or to make it easier to make inclusions/exclusions. In the last 2 days, I concurred with a previous poster that there was at least one ambiguity with the interpretation of the rules, and pointed out another. Whose fault is that, ours?
We call that trolling.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:58 AM   #12470
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We call that trolling.

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Old 09-28-2011, 11:03 AM   #12471
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Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
As long as there are rules, there will always be the need to refine them. Either to eliminate ambiguities or to make it easier to make inclusions/exclusions. In the last 2 days, I concurred with a previous poster that there was at least one ambiguity with the interpretation of the rules, and pointed out another. Whose fault is that, ours?
so far, you are the only one arguing the need to use a 4wd off-road buggy in a class that's designed and MEANT for 4wd touring cars - ie, specifically meant from the manufacturer as an ON-ROAD vehicle..

not a buggy that's been converted..

you don't like it, find another class to run as this one works pretty damn well throughout the USA as is..maybe, in your neck of the woods its allowable but not here

go troll in another thread...you're as bad as the people who are into USVTA for like 2 seconds and wanna change the speedo rules to fit their own personal agendas...the rules are perfectly fine as is..if you think you found a loop-hole, just don't come racing at my track - cause that chassis won't be allowed.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:12 AM   #12472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelacanth View Post
Uh-oh. Looks like someone needs to re-write the rule-book to eliminate ambiguities, eh?

The sad thing about this twist on the debate is all we're doing is arguing semantics, not focusing on the details that matter: What specifications effectively constitute a "touring car chassis"? I'd rather discuss details such as height, weight, suspension, transmission, etc. than wank around with word-play.
I think that Coelacanth's actually has a point here...

Exhibit A

(I actually own the Opel, bought it in 1996)



both of these cars use the tamiya TA-02 chassis (which is considered by many to be the first "touring car" chassis) and 95% of the same parts. Tamiya used the same chassis for 4WD sedans, buggies and trucks.

If Kyosho made "touring cars" of the Optimas in the mid 90s then the general argument against his car would be invalid. I think part of the spirit of VTA is served by allowing the recycling of good 1/10 scale 4WD cars and I wouldn't have any problems racing against his Optima with my TA-05.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate here and I'm ok with that. I also don't think that running a chain drive 4WD car with a higher center of gravity and a heaver rotating mass has any advantages.

To me the CORE rules for VTA are:

4WD
Weight
Ride height minimum
Body
Tires
Motor
ESC
Battery

If his car meets the above rules, my $.02, the Optima is perfectly legal.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:21 AM   #12473
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On the point of ESCs, I should be shipping one of the HW Justock ESCs, which is supposed to be a zero timing, zero boost unit, to Rob tomorrow or Friday. Maybe we'll have one more choice in the next month or so. Nuff said until we get a yes or no.

To all who read previous posts on this, I really did think they were physically the same ESC. I know better now.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:26 AM   #12474
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
On the point of ESCs, I should be shipping one of the HW Justock ESCs, which is supposed to be a zero timing, zero boost unit, to Rob tomorrow or Friday. Maybe we'll have one more choice in the next month or so. Nuff said until we get a yes or no.

To all who read previous posts on this, I really did think they were physically the same ESC. I know better now.
actually, i think i'd rather hear a speedo debate then the 4wd buggy is the same as a TC debate
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #12475
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
DARKSIDE: any chance you could post the chassis and body list from the A main of your big race? Thanks
Neither chassis nor body information was specifically collected, so I'm not sure how much info you'll get from this request overall. I can add my own information, however. I was 10th in the A.
Chassis: 3racing Sakura Zero S
Body: ProtoForm J71 (Javelin)

If it matters, I ran the Havok/SS Pro combo geared at 3.7 FDR. I think everyone else had a Ballistic with the timing at the last line and geared 4.0 FDR. I found 3.7 with the SS Pro to be a pretty close match on the straight, and didn't lose enough low-end to really notice.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:37 AM   #12476
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Neither chassis nor body information was specifically collected, so I'm not sure how much info you'll get from this request overall. I can add my own information, however. I was 10th in the A.
Chassis: 3racing Sakura Zero S
Body: ProtoForm J71 (Javelin)

If it matters, I ran the Havok/SS Pro combo geared at 3.7 FDR. I think everyone else had a Ballistic with the timing at the last line and geared 4.0 FDR. I found 3.7 with the SS Pro to be a pretty close match on the straight, and didn't lose enough low-end to really notice.
I would appreciate hearing your opinion of the 3racing Sakura Zero S...
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:43 AM   #12477
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actually, i think i'd rather hear a speedo debate then the 4wd buggy is the same as a TC debate
My argument stunk though. I made an assumption as HW may (can't prove it currently) manufacture some models of SP ESCs, but as proven not the Cirtix. I still haven't done full RC penance yet for that boo-boo. I'm not fighting for or against the HW, I just see it as another option if its allowed. It won't kill me either way. I have 2 21.5s laying around and 2 F103s in need of brushless motors with ROAR no timing , no boost ESCs and at the same price point it was a no brainer to get a couple just to try. I hope they do work out though.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:49 AM   #12478
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There is no reason to post a list of chassis'. VTA is what it is. A defined class of race car that will go on to last a very long time.

Im sure that a off road conversion will find a home on some piece of rug somewhere in Canada in some kind of class...just not VTA...It is what it is.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:51 AM   #12479
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I would appreciate hearing your opinion of the 3racing Sakura Zero S...
I posted a quick summary in the thread for the car: http://www.rctech.net/forum/9707186-post669.html

Let me know if you'd like any further information.

Short answer: easy-to-drive, competitive chassis at a very low price point.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:08 PM   #12480
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My argument stunk though. I made an assumption as HW may (can't prove it currently) manufacture some models of SP ESCs, but as proven not the Cirtix. I still haven't done full RC penance yet for that boo-boo. I'm not fighting for or against the HW, I just see it as another option if its allowed. It won't kill me either way. I have 2 21.5s laying around and 2 F103s in need of brushless motors with ROAR no timing , no boost ESCs and at the same price point it was a no brainer to get a couple just to try. I hope they do work out though.
i wasn't singling you out i actually didn't see any of yours and your stand made sense...look at the KO Helios and JR radio - looks identical through, but supposedly the case was just made by KO for JR, but all the guts inside were completely different...but yet, the sceens and functionality was just about identical...no idea

i was just referring to the 'why not ROAR sportsman speedos, like my RS on the official list' kind of guys

those guys are always good for a laugh or two
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