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Old 08-21-2011, 04:40 PM   #12181
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My rears barely ever show much wear. After a set of fronts are completely bald the rears still have plenty of tread left. 1 race day on carpet and 3 on soda prepped asphalt and no trace of tread on front tires was left. rears still fine

I would think just running on bald tires would go against the spirit of the class myself. Kinda why it says no slicks. I know in race teching tread is required.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #12182
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My rears barely ever show much wear. After a set of fronts are completely bald the rears still have plenty of tread left. 1 race day on carpet and 3 on soda prepped asphalt and no trace of tread on front tires was left. rears still fine

I would think just running on bald tires would go against the spirit of the class myself. Kinda why it says no slicks. I know in race teching tread is required.
I'm wondering if you have a set up issue? High speed push that's causing lots of tire wear?

As to treads, I would think that at least 1/2 tread depth of new, across the full face of the tire at start would be a minimum requirement to stay in the 'spirit' of the rules.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:29 PM   #12183
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I'm wondering if you have a set up issue? High speed push that's causing lots of tire wear?

As to treads, I would think that at least 1/2 tread depth of new, across the full face of the tire at start would be a minimum requirement to stay in the 'spirit' of the rules.
not pushing...actually some over steer.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:01 PM   #12184
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Although we haven't actually started racing USVTA at our track yet, I'm trying to get a class started and have been practicing on the track a bit
We have an outdoor asphalt track here in SC, so it gets hot. After about 25 minutes or so on a 120-ish F track surface, the front tires are very bald in the middle with barely noticeable tread on the edges. The rears are very close to bald at the same amount of running.
After about 2.5 hours running on the same tires, they are completely bald on both front and rear, but I haven't seen any real degradation in performance. I'll be bringing a lap counter to the track for some practice in a couple weeks so that I can more accurately measure the difference between treaded and bald tires when it comes to performance.
On a positive note, if the performance is not noticeably different, I won't worry about it since the USVTA rules do not state that any tread is actually required. That seems to be a local club rule in some places.


Post your setup. Many times heavy tire wear can be helped by setup. Are you running at Easley? If so, that surface is a little rough on tires to begin with.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:02 PM   #12185
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not pushing...actually some over steer.
If your front tires are worn out and you are oversteering, sounds like you need to correct your setup.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:05 PM   #12186
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Post your setup. Many times heavy tire wear can be helped by setup. Are you running at Easley? If so, that surface is a little rough on tires to begin with.

I'm just going to keep an eye on them to see how long a set will last before wearing through the rubber on an asphalt track.
I run on carpet and it seems everyone is going through fronts faster than rears. With my car the performance gets worse as the fronts wear down to slicks. Fresh fronts are the way to go for me.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:41 PM   #12187
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Yes, I do race at Easley. The track was resurfaced late last year and has very little time on it, so it is in pretty good shape. I'm not sure that the track itself would cause excess wear. It might. I'm learning asphalt as I go...I've only raced carpet sedan and 12th scale onroad years ago.

My current setup is the kit setup for a TC3.
We also ran a JRX-S on the same day and had the same wear results.
That day, we treated the track with grape soda and ran for approximately 25 minutes. That isn't far off of 3 qualifiers and a main. This means one set of front tires for each race day, not counting any practice. (and I love to practice ). That adds up too quickly for what is intended to be a cost controlled class, at least as far as my wallet is concerned.

As far as the 'spirit' of the rules, my interpretation is that one specific tire is used, but no tire condition is mandated. As you mentioned, slicks are excluded, but I believe that was done to single out the other HPI Vintage tires to exclude them by name. It is consistent with the spirit, in my opinion, to let drivers run the tires in whatever condition they like. Grinding of the tread is forbidden, but there is no other qualification for the tread listed.
As a technicality, the rules appear to be written for indoor carpet tracks and it is recommended that those tracks follow the rules to the letter with no deviation... Technically, requiring tread on the tires is not listed in the rules, but I will be bringing new tires with me to the USVTA Southern Nationals because that track requires tread on the tires.

I realize that this may read as a "jerk-ish" post, but please understand that I dont intend rudeness or disrespect to your decisions. I see this as a class heavily dependent on the rules. I'm not looking to change what is written, or add any new rules that only apply to my local track. The guys I'm working with to get USVTA going here are in agreement that we 'race what is written'.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:35 PM   #12188
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When I first looked into running VTA, I remember that the rules had stated tires had to have visible tread. Perhaps it was changed in the last update?
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:51 PM   #12189
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Originally Posted by x3inchesx View Post
When I first looked into running VTA, I remember that the rules had stated tires had to have visible tread. Perhaps it was changed in the last update?
Most official races that I have seen will state that the tires have to have tread when the race starts.

I am running the same track as Monkey and have the exact same tire wear. Fronts lose it fast and the rears look fine. Totally different car and I havent even looked at his setup, but the tire wear is very similar. The track used to be a tennis court so I think the grip agent on the old surface is part of the problem. We tried to neutralize this a bit by painting it with exterior latex. We didnt want to lose too much traction so we thinned it a bit. I have heard that you mess up the traction when you paint it but this track has loads of grip, so I think that only happens when you paint it with enamel. The latex handles great.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:45 AM   #12190
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When I first looked into running VTA, I remember that the rules had stated tires had to have visible tread. Perhaps it was changed in the last update?
A couple months ago, when I first started pushing for USVTA at our track, I was sure that tread was required by the rules. A couple others pointed out to me that it is not stated in the rules at all. I couldn't find that information in the official rules, so I assumed I got it from reading forum posts about individual track rules. I stood corrected and haven't given it much more thought before now.

I tried to find old versions of the rules, but they don't seem to be linked on the official website www.usvintagetransam.com
In searching around on the internet, I did find a web site for a club racing USVTA where they appeared to copy and paste the rules instead of linking them. This site hasn't been updated since October 2008. The 'tires' section of the rules are the same as the current rules, updated July 2011.
http://fmrc0.tripod.com/id6.html
Does anyone have copies of previous versions of the rules?

On a different note - where do you guys race in GA? If it's not too far, I'd love to come join in sometime!
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:00 AM   #12191
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I'm sure RObk will chime in about this, but its probably more of a track decision...

the VTA tires have a usuable life range, that will vary from track surface to track surface....I believe the rules at the USVTA nationals what you had to have some kind of visible tread on the tire, but its not written into the rules, other then the fact that slicks aren't allow - and if you have a bald tire, you got a slick
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:34 AM   #12192
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I'm sure RObk will chime in about this, but its probably more of a track decision...

the VTA tires have a usuable life range, that will vary from track surface to track surface....I believe the rules at the USVTA nationals what you had to have some kind of visible tread on the tire, but its not written into the rules, other then the fact that slicks aren't allow - and if you have a bald tire, you got a slick
An interjection/clarification from Rob would be great!

Again, just being technical here, the rules don't state that slicks aren't allowed; they state that "HPI Vintage Slicks" aren't allowed. My interpretation of adding this wording to the rules was to cover the people who would say "I'm using HPI Vintage tires, so they must be legal!", due to HPI having several tires with the 'Vintage' label, including 4791 and 4792, HPI Vintage Slick Racing Tires.
The rules specifically state that tires must be HPI 4793 and 4797. With those tires on the car, it should be presumed legal.

If there is an update to the rules that states tread must be visible, as it is at some tracks, I'm pretty sure we'll have our own track rule that states bald spec tires are legal. I'm personally not looking to spend ~$30 for new tires in addition to race fees every time we run USVTA. It reminds me too much of spending too much on foam tires when running stock and 19t sedan and 12th scale
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:53 AM   #12193
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An interjection/clarification from Rob would be great!

Again, just being technical here, the rules don't state that slicks aren't allowed; they state that "HPI Vintage Slicks" aren't allowed. My interpretation of adding this wording to the rules was to cover the people who would say "I'm using HPI Vintage tires, so they must be legal!", due to HPI having several tires with the 'Vintage' label, including 4791 and 4792, HPI Vintage Slick Racing Tires.
The rules specifically state that tires must be HPI 4793 and 4797. With those tires on the car, it should be presumed legal.

If there is an update to the rules that states tread must be visible, as it is at some tracks, I'm pretty sure we'll have our own track rule that states bald spec tires are legal. I'm personally not looking to spend ~$30 for new tires in addition to race fees every time we run USVTA. It reminds me too much of spending too much on foam tires when running stock and 19t sedan and 12th scale
depending on the surface you're racing on, your tires should be should be good for a few weeks of racing - not a new set every week...I've run the same set for about 3 or 4 race days in a row before they start loosing grip - and they STILL had tread showing..

again, this probably isn't a ruling for Rob - this is something you should be discussing at your local track...the USVTA rules as such, but there are certain things that can be interrupted differently from track-to-track...

and to me, no HPI slicks mean no slicks period regardless what they started out as - that's the rules we run at my track, you gotta have some kind of evidence of tread or the tires need replacing..and as flying monkey mention, bald tires fit into that 'spirit of the rules' section...a bald tire is no different then a slick except its got much less life in it..
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:32 AM   #12194
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Here's a YouTube video of the VTA A-Main Race at Mike's Hobby Shop from last Saturday, Aug. 20...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=868bUQKeAJk
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:47 AM   #12195
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depending on the surface you're racing on, your tires should be should be good for a few weeks of racing - not a new set every week...I've run the same set for about 3 or 4 race days in a row before they start loosing grip - and they STILL had tread showing..

again, this probably isn't a ruling for Rob - this is something you should be discussing at your local track...the USVTA rules as such, but there are certain things that can be interrupted differently from track-to-track...

and to me, no HPI slicks mean no slicks period regardless what they started out as - that's the rules we run at my track, you gotta have some kind of evidence of tread or the tires need replacing..and as flying monkey mention, bald tires fit into that 'spirit of the rules' section...a bald tire is no different then a slick except its got much less life in it..
Here are a couple pics of my experience so far. I have two TC3s, one of which I've run more often to check tire wear, etc...
This pic is from the car I run more often, when it had about 1 hour of track time.


This pic is from the other car, at about 10-15 minutes of track time.


The left side is more worn because the sweeper at the end of the straight is a right turn and I hadn't rotated the tires at that point.
No, I haven't spent any time cleaning up wiring and setting up the cars . They are both set up with the TC3 kit setup. My goal to start was to show other racers here that the car doesn't have to be new or pretty to be able to race USVTA

This discussion on bald tires started when I added my reply in response to the tires wearing fast on asphalt. It turned into a rules discussion from there.
I agree that this is a decision for the track. I did post that we had already made a decision at the track. The guys who are interested in USVTA want to race according to the rules, as they are written. When we get to actually racing USVTA, we'll have to figure out the right tech process for the tires. I'll probably buy a set of each of the other HPI Vintage tires and see what the differences are in person so we know what to look for when tech'ing the cars.
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