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Old 05-30-2011, 10:44 AM   #11701
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Don't worry about this ROAR race. The 21.5 thing is more a problem of the local clubs who have not changed over to the new rules. ROAR isn't the problem as much as guys not wanting to move to a new spec. There is nothing you can really do about that.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:54 AM   #11702
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Sorry, this issue was done a long long time ago.
...ok, thanks
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:30 AM   #11703
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I've looked high and low on this thread and I still don't understand why the VTA founders changed the motor rule to 25.5. Been racing a long time but just started racing VTA with our local parking group and their still on last years 21.5 program with a fixed 4.2 FDR. Racing is very tight...top three cars finished within 6 seconds after a 8 min main yesterday. We've had up to 8 cars so far and the speeds are dead even on the straight. What was wrong with 21.5 with a 4.2 FDR limit. Seems far more cost effective than 25.5 geared to the brink of meltdown.
You must not have looked very hard. It's been discussed MANY times. The reasons are not only valid, but the new motor WORKS BETTER! And they never come off the track hot or even close to a "meltdown." Get your fact straight.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:32 AM   #11704
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The bigger issue is the 1550g weight rule. I think Rob is just making a justification because his plastic driver is the modeled after the last Biggest Loser.










Having fun yet, Rob.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:36 AM   #11705
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You must not have looked very hard. It's been discussed MANY times. The reasons are not only valid, but the new motor WORKS BETTER! And they never come off the track hot or even close to a "meltdown." Get your fact straight.
Thank you......now back to my little corner of the world
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:23 PM   #11706
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actually, one should be refered to as USVTA and the other VTA - now there's the end of discussion
lol key board cowboys
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:44 PM   #11707
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The bigger issue is the 1550g weight rule. I think Rob is just making a justification because his plastic driver is the modeled after the last Biggest Loser.










Having fun yet, Rob.
I still need to get to some scales to check mine...my chassis came from a VTA racer and has ALot of wieght added to it....Whole stick but im not sure where its at weight wise. I had to change rear diff cause cups were worn slap out and used plastic so I know I lost a little there. Temp change till I can get me the right alum diff in it.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:11 PM   #11708
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finally saw a VTA final where they ran the track backwards for the final. boy those 1st couple laps the guys were drivin like they were on the 'dizzy dummy' from the gameshow wipeout.

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Old 05-30-2011, 04:38 PM   #11709
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The whole reason the USVTA was designed and developed was to avoid problems such as this. I know—it was my driving force behind creating the sanctioning rule book.

While I understand Greg's reasoning behind the decision, I still think it was the perfect opportunity to infuse the 25.5 into an area where it hasn't caught on, for some reason.
I wish we could have avoided this issue! Months ago we had to decide on the "track choice class" for the Nationals, and there were only a few options. A third 1/12 class seemed far fetched because no one had ever put down a single 1/12 at Jackson, no less 3 full classes of them. F1 was another option, but there aren't many racers and the rule set is wildly outdated. VTA, on the other hand, has been run at past Nationals, has a great local base of racers, and the current ROAR rule set keeps it slower than the next slowest class (17.5 blinky TC at this Nats). Basically, it fit well with ROAR's TC Blink-a-thon classes.

While I completely agree that this is AN opportune time to have ROAR change the VTA rule set to the current USVTA rule set, I can attest that this is not the AREA to attempt such a change at a time SO CLOSE to the Nationals. None, and I mean NONE, of the VTA groups within 3 states of New Jersey are using the 25.5 motors. The organizers and track owners want to use the 25.5 rules (for all the right reasons), but their racers do not (for arguably the wrong reasons). ROAR is willing to change rules to better suit the masses, but in this area, where most of the VTA racers attending the Nationals are going to come from, the better thing to do is ensure the class is well stocked. Many of the VTA entrants will be using VTA as thier second class at the ROAR Nationals because the faster TC classes and the pancar classes aren't their cup of tea. VTA is.

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While I completely agree that this is AN opportune time to have ROAR change the VTA rule set to the current USVTA rule set...
To quote myself, it will be just as opportune at the next ROAR Nationals, especially if the turnout at this Nats is decent. Unfortunately, VTA has been poorly supported at past ROAR events and won't get more attention until the racer count increases. Interest drives more interest. A good turnout at this Nats may help sway the next Nats host to run the class even if it isn't very popular at thier track on a weekly basis. By the time we get to the 2012 Carpet Nats, the ROAR rule set could very well be updated with plenty of notice for the entrants.

Track owners and event organizers only want one thing, to please their racers and attract more racers. That's my motivation as well (Jackson R/C is all volunteer). To be even more forthright, I have always been a big proponent of slowing the class down with the 25.5 motors. Should anyone doubt my motivations, just search for my posts in this thread.

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While I understand Greg's reasoning behind the decision....
Just so everyone knows what went into this tough decision, I ended up with $130 in overages on my cell phone bill from talking with the local track owners, organizers, many racers, and ROAR officials. I literally PAID to make this decision.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:44 PM   #11710
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Probably a dumb question, Im still new to the on road scene, but is snowbirds a ROAR event? And if so, with this talk about VTA at the Snowbirds would it probably be by the USVTA rules or the ROAR version?

I understand people cant see the future of course but what greater possibility?
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:51 PM   #11711
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Again, didn't mean to make this an argument. Just an observation. If the ends justifies the means then great. In other words, if there are groups that are ACTUALLY moving toward VTA compliance then great......
Maybe this isn't a big deal....NOW....but in the long run it just seems to go against all the hard work that alot of us are doing to promote the class.
You hit the nail right on the head; a means to an end. It sounds like you've already converted the VTA racers in your area, but the hard work isn't over in the NYC area. We are still wearing tires out and torching 21.5s faster than is necessary to get good door to door racing (21.5s with 60' of endbell timing will do that and one of our local groups runs a slower FDR limit which isn't tech'd!). Once the Nats are over, a couple of the local groups are expecting to go 25.5 and then we'll shift our attention to getting ROAR's rule set in line with the USVTA rule set. Means to an end, we're all going in the same direction, but some of us are starting from behind.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:57 PM   #11712
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greg, the guys over at richfield racers in central pa had a damn good idea and made the racing fair and fun for all and didnt beat on motors. they said 21.5 (they did stipulate brand (novak) but i'm sure others could be worked with). they set a huge FDR (7:1) for their size track. i'm sure u could go taller but reference sake, and then they went so far is to tech rpms and after the group was equalized before race mtg, they stickered the motors for the day.

turned out great, they really have their ship sailin straight and true, and it makes for a better time for all. i'm glad to have made the trip up there 1 time for their 4hr enduro where this was procedure was done (and we had the slowest motor lol).

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Old 05-30-2011, 05:03 PM   #11713
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Probably a dumb question, Im still new to the on road scene, but is snowbirds a ROAR event? And if so, with this talk about VTA at the Snowbirds would it probably be by the USVTA rules or the ROAR version?

I understand people cant see the future of course but what greater possibility?

No the Snowbirds is NOT a R.O.A.R. sanctioned race.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:04 PM   #11714
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No the Snowbirds is NOT a R.O.A.R. sanctioned race.
Good deal. Thank you for the answer
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:29 PM   #11715
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greg, the guys over at richfield racers in central pa had a damn good idea .....they set a huge FDR (7:1) for their size track...
R
The issue with FDR limits is that it rewards burning 21.5s to the ground by using excessive endbell timing. That is my biggest reason for supporting the 25.5 ruleset, and the speed vs. tire wear ratio being a close second on some tracks.

However, 25.5 motors WITHOUT the FDR limits use more of their inherent torque to propel the car, finding a happy medium between endbell timing and FDR where the motors aren't blazing hot, the speeds are appropriate for inexpensive door to door racing, and there's NO tech procedure. As an event organizer, I like the last reason, it keeps me out of racer-to-racer arguments.
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