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Old 05-30-2011, 08:05 AM   #11686
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Hmmm... Double post
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:45 AM   #11687
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A lot of club tracks are running 21.5 as well. Personally, I'd rather official VTA rules were still 21.5, but that's just an opinion.

Shameless plug: If anyone needs an ESC, I've got a SP Cirtix VTA legal esc for sale NIB in the FS section of the forum:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...5-shipped.html
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:20 AM   #11688
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If its not run by VTA rules it shouldnt be called "VTA", it should be called "a similar version of VTA", period end of discussion.

there now you can be a jerk
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:31 AM   #11689
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the motor thing aint a big deal..i run both 21.5/25.5..depending on where i go to race..the only thing about the 25.5 motor you dont have a choice of a different company...but the way the rules are now makes it more fair racing..so if roar is adding this class to their events..(vta has made it to the big times)..just follow the rules & have fun...reather its roar/or the grandslam
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:46 AM   #11690
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If its not run by VTA rules it shouldnt be called "VTA", it should be called "a similar version of VTA", period end of discussion.

there now you can be a jerk
actually, one should be refered to as USVTA and the other VTA - now there's the end of discussion
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:47 AM   #11691
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Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
and last I checked, Florida tracks run/ran their own brand of VTA - IF they still run VTA...they were the FIRST area that bucked the official VTA rules, by 'needing' to run 17.5 outside since the 21.5's were too slow
The problem is, the Florida group who "bucked" the nationals rules to do what they thought was best, even against the urging of many of the USVTA founders, as far as I know, had such terrible turnout for their VTA program, that it died a painful death.

The whole reason the USVTA was designed and developed was to avoid problems such as this. I know—it was my driving force behind creating the sanctioning rule book.

While I understand Greg's reasoning behind the decision, I still think it was the perfect opportunity to infuse the 25.5 into an area where it hasn't caught on, for some reason.

Looking back on the whole progression of the class, the worst thing that could have happened was allowing ROAR to get involved. Slow to act, trying to please everyone, worried about what manufacturers think, and only interested in sanctioning on a National-level—something this class was never intended to be. Sorry, that's just my opinion. It's too bad that this is even a topic for discussion. 21.5s are no longer used in legal VTA racing. Slow adopters are just behind the curve—not doing their own thing.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:49 AM   #11692
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This comment isn't meant to start an argument but I have to ask ....."why is ANYONE promoting or supporting major deviations from the official rules ?" If ROAR isn't using official VTA rules, we should be taking that as a slap in the face and NOT support it in any way. No offense but it just doesn't make sense to accept a forced division in a program that is the epicenter of spec enforcement.
I agree 100%,This class was started to have a more authentic SLOWER racing class.Now we are changing to a faster motor,next we will have speedo changes,then tire options and then battery changes,and we will have changed this class to somthing else. Whats wrong with the VTA rules as they are? Why are we changing them. The beauty of the class is that it is cost effective and looks like fun.I have just purchased a used T2 007 and built the car to run VTA.I built the car to VTA rules with legal parts and added 120gs of weight to the car to make it legal.The car will be on the track for the first time on the 4th and I am looking forward to racing other LEGAL VTA cars,not cars with a unfair advantage. I guess thats why they dont race Cup cars in the Nationwide Series.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:52 AM   #11693
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Again, didn't mean to make this an argument. Just an observation. If the ends justifies the means then great. In other words, if there are groups that are ACTUALLY moving toward VTA compliance then great...but I don't know if it's a good thing to advertise the fact that there are races and clubs operating on a regular basis with no plans to comply and yet still call it VTA.
Bojar...don't even get me started about the Florida situation. As I've alluded to many times....I believe our club is the only one operating an official VTA class in the state. In fact, I don't even know of another group still offering VTA. Could be wrong but I see little talk of them.
As for the short lifetime of the current vta rules....have to disagree since VTA announced the new rule a year in advance. Hard to think that anybody is "suddenly" trying to deal with it.
Maybe this isn't a big deal....NOW....but in the long run it just seems to go against all the hard work that alot of us are doing to promote the class.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:53 AM   #11694
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I agree 100%,This class was started to have a more authentic SLOWER racing class.Now we are changing to a faster motor,next we will have speedo changes,then tire options and then battery changes,and we will have changed this class to somthing else. Whats wrong with the VTA rules as they are? Why are we changing them. The beauty of the class is that it is cost effective and looks like fun.I have just purchased a used T2 007 and built the car to run VTA.I built the car to VTA rules with legal parts and added 120gs of weight to the car to make it legal.The car will be on the track for the first time on the 4th and I am looking forward to racing other LEGAL VTA cars,not cars with a unfair advantage. I guess thats why they dont race Cup cars in the Nationwide Series.
no one said, one is better then the other...I like the 25.5 rules - however, ROAR has not moved forward, so as of right 25.5 ain't an option for a ROAR sanctioned race...

don't like - that's fine, no one is trying to convince you to do something else...andrew asked a question and I answered it - then this BS started...

so, for 4 days and one track at the end of July, VTA will be run following ROAR rules (pre-Sept 2010 rules)...so if you're in the neighborhood and a ROAR member, come run...if not, no biggie run what you are currently running..

NO ONE IS SAYING WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RULES...SOME TRACKS ARE SLOWER TO MAKE THE CHANGE AND SOME AREN'T - that's the truth, and there's nothing wrong with it...

USVTA is 25.5 with approved speedos - ain't a damn thing wrong with that...
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:05 AM   #11695
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Anybody for a USNASCAR class ?
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:12 AM   #11696
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I understand you trying to down play the issue but isn't this why the rules have been so strigently enforced ?? This type of discussion shouldn't even be had. VTA should be running VTA...not ROAR. If ROAR is slow or has no plans to adhere to OUR program...then why would anyone support a ROAR VTA race. They won't do squat in a hurry if racers are willing to bend to their whims. No offense to ROAR but is this really so freakin hard !!!?? There is absolutely NO reason for them not to adopt the official rules ASAP unless they have a different agenda. Trying to bend a succesful program because of their OWN analysis of the program or their own opinions on how to keep racer counts up during ROAR events is NOT the way to go.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:36 AM   #11697
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I've looked high and low on this thread and I still don't understand why the VTA founders changed the motor rule to 25.5. Been racing a long time but just started racing VTA with our local parking group and their still on last years 21.5 program with a fixed 4.2 FDR. Racing is very tight...top three cars finished within 6 seconds after a 8 min main yesterday. We've had up to 8 cars so far and the speeds are dead even on the straight. What was wrong with 21.5 with a 4.2 FDR limit. Seems far more cost effective than 25.5 geared to the brink of meltdown.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:36 AM   #11698
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Interesting thought.....
So ROAR decides to adopt 25.5 and correct esc's......but ROAR can't specify a manufacturer. So what happens if Novak is the only manufacturer that applies for ROAR approval ???

Since thats not likely to happen...the other side of that coin is that a number of manufacturers apply and now the whole VTA equation goes down the tubes BUT....at least their running "close" to the rules.

I agree with whats been said before....ROAR isn't good for VTA. If the bylaws don't allow for this type of "spec" program then the situation will never be good for the program.

There HAS to be a better way.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #11699
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Originally Posted by Lowrance View Post
I've looked high and low on this thread and I still don't understand why the VTA founders changed the motor rule to 25.5. Been racing a long time but just started racing VTA with our local parking group and their still on last years 21.5 program with a fixed 4.2 FDR. Racing is very tight...top three cars finished within 6 seconds after a 8 min main yesterday. We've had up to 8 cars so far and the speeds are dead even on the straight. What was wrong with 21.5 with a 4.2 FDR limit. Seems far more cost effective than 25.5 geared to the brink of meltdown.
Sorry, this issue was done a long long time ago.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:43 AM   #11700
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Originally Posted by Lowrance View Post
I've looked high and low on this thread and I still don't understand why the VTA founders changed the motor rule to 25.5. Been racing a long time but just started racing VTA with our local parking group and their still on last years 21.5 program with a fixed 4.2 FDR. Racing is very tight...top three cars finished within 6 seconds after a 8 min main yesterday. We've had up to 8 cars so far and the speeds are dead even on the straight. What was wrong with 21.5 with a 4.2 FDR limit. Seems far more cost effective than 25.5 geared to the brink of meltdown.
Don't know about you but I've never seen my 25.5 on the verge of a meltdown. I think you'll find the answer is a bit more complex because you're not considering the whole package of Motor/ESC and gearing. There's alot to be said about having a package that suits VTA almost exclusively. 21.5's have a broader spektrum of classes they apply to.....so now what ESC's will you spec and how many guys will complain that they can't do that because they want to run the 21.5 in another class and then they have to buy another esc....blah,blah....same comments we've heard before. Or at least BEFORE we adopted the 25.5 and select list of esc's.
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