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Old 01-12-2008, 11:27 PM   #91
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For the record, "we" were never inflexible about the 27t brushed motor.
Really? From pretty much the entire page one of this thread that's very definitely not the impression I or some others got. Actually, re-reading, the overwhelming message was "one spec / don't dillute the class". Now it's "run what'cha want". Excuse me for being a bit puzzled, but I kinda figured the purpose to a national sanctioning body would be to lay down a spec that everybody can race to AND maybe to create a "TA Nats" sort of thing down the road. How cool would that be?

Doug--please understand I'm trying VERY hard to get on-board with this, but thus far I've seen nothing but a moving target. And a target that's moving further and further from why we (and what the folks at Trackside initially) said was the impetus for the class. I've been telling the guys here that a national sanctioning for this is a GREAT idea, especially if it gets the 4-cell idea codified because to my mind THAT is the crux of this great class. The motor choice follows that and it sounds like that's what you've been exploring. I'm curious how long until, having gotten their way with brushless, the tech-mavens will be crying for LiPo. My bet? Not long.

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Anyone who spends time mapping and timing ESC software for a Trans Am car also probably doesn't see the sun much or have human contact very often. :
Remember, you're talking to the guy who goes 6-8 races or more and doesn't even oil his motor bearings. What I'm alluding to are the VERY same guys who spend hours hunched over their dyno with a big-ass box of springs and brushes creating unheard of horsepower combinations will STILL have the HP advantage with the BL motors. The game will change, but for those guys that tuning is a BIG part of the hobby and it ain't going to go away.


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And remember, we are not removing the brushed 27t motor option—just enhancing the choices for racer who want to choose. They proved to be very equal on the track with the FDR limit.
I'm not inherently opposed to a FDR limit. I can even accept it's "Gentleman's Agreement" at club races. Unfortunately, if you (eventually) create a TA Nat that will have to be tech'd for the event to have any meaning. Is that where we want to go just because we're trying (to my mind futily) to create parity between two very different technologies? If it's the right answer it's the right answer, I'm just asking the question.

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No, as of this time, we don't have a 21.5 to test with. For now, the 4-cell equivalents were the main focus and will be the focus of the class. Personally, I think the 21.5/Lipo option will be a good one down the road, but we're trying to walk before we run.
If you're going to establish a spec it would seem that picking up a 21.5 and definitively testing it would be a VERY good plan before "settling" on 17.5 . I'd also probably advise that if it's track/racer consensus you're after that a good call would be to see what ROAR announces (likely this week?) re: brushless specs.

Any rate, I've spoken to a couple folks here and I think I can make a case that we'll call our TA 19T championship a year after last week's sixth race and do our final 4 club races with a new championship based on 27T and really give that an honest go in race conditions rather than the testing conditions we've done. I think we can get a following to do a "National" spec class heads-up on the 1450g minimum alongside our "Classic TA" which would maintain the higher weight minumums, weight penalties and "legacy" electronics.

We're trying to be as flexible as possible...but thus far there APPEARS to be too much flip-flopping. And the LiPo will be the kiss of death.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:23 AM   #92
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I don't want this thread to be full of bickering, so I will try to keep it brief and on-point.



I thought I clearly expressed in the start of the thread that the rules we would be adapting for this formula had been used by a few tracks in the area with great success, but they were not finished for our program yet. For that I apologize. There were still questions that needed to be answered here, but we did want to get a feel for the reaction of this class on a larger scale. That certainly has helped us greatly.

There are loosely 5 or 6 of us who are trying to adapt this to a wider audience, and after dipping our toes into the waters with this thread, it became VERY obvious that a brushless solution was a necessary option to make this class grow and prosper on a wider basis than just a few guys running their old equipment at a couple of tracks here and there.

If we had wanted to completely exclude brushed stock motors, we wouldn't have wasted the time, money and effort to make sure that the 17.5 wasn't such a very close compromise to give both new and old racers a choice. We feel that while they are not the same everywhere on the track, they are close enough to continue to offer great racing for both sides of this motor debate.

Again, no one is forcing anyone to run motors that they aren't comfortable with. Some people may not be happy with the decision to do this, but it would have been that way no matter what was decided on. It was a unanimous and overwhelming agreement that said that this was the best thing to do for the growth and prosperity of this class. We are not looking at our own individual selfish needs but trying to forecast what a new racer would want to use, as well as many of the old existing racers who are in the class already, or on the fence.

Forcing people to buy old gear is just wrong, to keep it a "legacy" class. I don't care how cheap or affordable it is. That's really shooting the class in the foot before anyone has a chance to grab onto it. Financially responsible decisions don't always come from buying the cheapest items you can find.

The speeds and lap times attained with the 17.5 and a tuned stock motor are virtually identical. Actually in testing, the brushed stock motors showed to be faster on top, though they do need a different driving style. Everyone is more than welcome to even go between the two motor styles to find what suits them best.



We all knew that this decision would put off a few people, and as counted on, that hasn't disappointed. It wasn't a whim of a decision, and it wasn't taken lightly. It was the overall consensus that this was the absolute right thing to do for this class and it's future. If we wait on ROAR to make decisions, we could be waiting for a long time, though thy do seem to be ready to move forward with a 17.5 plan in stock class, so we're not that far off base as some of you would like to think.

For those of you complaining, I am sure that you haven't tried this formula yet. If you did you would understand that it works, and it will work on a larger, broader scale. Only time will tell, though, but I personally don't see it being a poor decision.



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Old 01-13-2008, 08:21 AM   #93
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Some tracks around this area are already using 17.5s in the Sportsman/Novice classes. So for those complaining that it's too expensive to run in Trans Am I didn't see anyone complaining when Sportsman/Novice adopted 17.5s. The Novak Champs was all BL....many complained and many loved it. So as with all change you can't please everyone. Over time this will all pan out as you see more and more brushless racing at all levels.

---

Anyway...Brushless is here and you will see more and more big race, club racers, heck even bashers all running brushless. We are just getting ahead of the game or in some instances playing catch up since most people are already running BL.

---

Hopefully the dates and everything will be posted soon. A few sponsors are lined up and we are hoping for more. If not no biggie the races will still go on

Now let's see some of the Trans Am rides people are racing...post pics!
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:14 PM   #94
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Having been able to see some of the testing yesterday, I think that what Doug & co. have come up with will be fine. The cars were very close, with a slight edge on the straight to the brush cars. The brushless cars seemed to have a bit more infield rip. I think that whatever a racer chooses to use for a power plant, there will be good racing.

I hope that nobody gets discouraged by any of this. I think that there are a lot of people who have moved on to brushless, and this will help include more drivers. The 27t motor is still there to be used, and it is unlimited in gearing. I would even say that it would be preferred on some of the larger, more open tracks.

Like Nexus said, let's see some paint jobs
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:58 PM   #95
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Here is my TC3 set up. I actually prefer it over the 415 MSX (Black/Gold #13 Camaro) I started T/A with. It seems the shaftdrive has a little more out of the corners than the belt cars.

Awesome job on the website by the way.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:06 PM   #96
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awesome to see guys sharing setups and pictures of there cars
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:17 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Racer X79 View Post
Here is my TC3 set up. I actually prefer it over the 415 MSX (Black/Gold #13 Camaro) I started T/A with. It seems the shaftdrive has a little more out of the corners than the belt cars.

Awesome job on the website by the way.
Great paintjob, its awesome to see some "real" racecar paint schemes making it into rc!
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:40 PM   #98
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I put one of these cars together this weekend, our local track is gonna try to start a class, lots of people at the Barn today really liked my car and sounds like some people are gonna give it a try... Our track is pretty small, it's actually really fun to drive this car ona small track, and it looks awsome running it around... Hope they catch on!!
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:42 PM   #99
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Apex,
Placed my body/tire order Friday, should be running at MRCR in two weeks. Looking forward to the fun.

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Old 01-13-2008, 06:46 PM   #100
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I absolutely love to see pictures of cars, with and without the bodies on them. I heard from a little birdy that HPI is working on a coupe more vintage T/A bodies for us, too.

I'll add some more photos of both of the AAR cars in my stable... you can see the new Mi2EC is the correct color, and the early TC3 blue is a bit off from the original. Both were turning identical lap times on Saturday (brushed & brushless).
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:53 PM   #101
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Here is my Yenko inspired Camaro.

This is going to be a great class! We are going to try it out in our local track in two weeks. Can't wait!

Too bad the Cobra is not a legal body.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:01 PM   #102
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Here's a few of the chassis shots...

FT TC3 -------------------------------- Schumacher Mi2EC
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:53 PM   #103
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Here's a couple of mine in action.
Photo's courtesy of Doug.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:56 PM   #104
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go to historictransamdotcom for whole bunch of cool paint ideas....
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:04 PM   #105
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well it looks like im in for this class. the next time im at trackside ( wich will be in a week or so ) i will be getting me a body and some tires . i think this is going to be an absolout blast.
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