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Old 01-04-2011, 12:42 PM   #9946
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Rob knows as well as anyone, though, that if people THINK it is something that makes them faster, they will buy it. Most R/C racers are similar, even if their driving doesn't even allow them to take advantage of technology minutia. The point of a spec class and spec motors is that you don't need to buy those extra things to be on the same level as everyone else in the class. If it's not allowed in the rules, it keeps racers from feeling that the need those items to compete. Tires, rotors, batteries, ESCs, bodies... whatever. It's better for everyone if they aren't allowed at all.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:06 PM   #9947
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No tuning rotors are allowed in vta. Its in the rules. I'm just trying to figure out how to tech them if someone gets slick
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:40 PM   #9948
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In testing the larger rotors have gobs more torque but lower RPM effectively lowering the KV of that motor? look at gearing differences if the cars are the same speed. I did pull apart one motor that I suspected of having a tuning rotor and it was just under geared so it looked way faster in the infield. but it only took 10 min to inspect the motor. I wonder if there is something on the shaft that will be different so it can be identified from outside the can. as in the old 19T motors has a nub on the end of the shaft to signify that it was a proper wind
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:49 PM   #9949
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And I believe that not only are the tuning rotors mentioned on the rules as being illegal, but if the issue was pushed, that a clause would be immediately added to not allow the ceramic bearings, as well.

This is a spec classóchanging of spec motor components would be considered cheating and would likely bounce out of tech at any track that enforces the USVTA rules.
Again I run a plain ss25.5 that I bought used, runs just as well as the rest of the motors I've seen

I was simply stating that those options are not only there but are really "unfortunately" about impossible to tech for. With that said, I also know there have been many Novak rotors tested that were within graded specs that came in ordinary run of the mill Novaks so it's quite possible to have a rotor that test like a graded rotor but is not 'hand picked'.

As far as ceramic motor bearings go I have had them in other motors and don't really see them as an advantage over the standard bearings, then again my laps aren't consistent to the point where I would ever notice something that minor.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #9950
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And I believe that not only are the tuning rotors mentioned on the rules as being illegal, but if the issue was pushed, that a clause would be immediately added to not allow the ceramic bearings, as well.

This is a spec classóchanging of spec motor components would be considered cheating and would likely bounce out of tech at any track that enforces the USVTA rules.
Our 13mm tuning rotors are identified by the beveled shaft as illustrated in Myron's post upthread as well as my link to the rotor itself; this rotor is not ROAR-legal.

USVTA probably should outlaw ceramic bearings---we do not include either the bearings, or motors with the bearings, in our USVTA store. We mfg many items specific to certain groups of racers---such as the graded rotors and upcoming epoxied 17.5 stators. These are primarily for Oval racers dealing with the excessive timing/boost currents they are using.

Keep in mind, the addition of either ceramic bearings or graded rotors in 25.5 turn motors would probably be negligible---performance-wise.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:05 PM   #9951
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Put it this way, specing a rotor rating is not only impossible due to variations in meters, it's also probably irrelevant for what we do.

On the other hand, I will outlaw ceramic bearings later today
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:39 PM   #9952
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So to sum this all up lets just keep having fun with our cars!!!!!
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:44 PM   #9953
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
USVTA probably should outlaw ceramic bearings---we do not include either the bearings, or motors with the bearings, in our USVTA store.
Why? Especially in light of this statement?:

Quote:
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Keep in mind, the addition of either ceramic bearings or graded rotors in 25.5 turn motors would probably be negligible---performance-wise.

These two statements don't jive without any support.

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Put it this way, specing a rotor rating is not only impossible due to variations in meters, it's also probably irrelevant for what we do.

On the other hand, I will outlaw ceramic bearings later today
I understand what you're trying to do (cost control and perception shaping), but I think it's a solution in search of a problem. In any case, how would you ever tech for user replaced bearings? I mean, it's not like they're hard to get, hard to replace, or expensive. It is something that the average user wouldn't do on their own, probably, so it's really probably a non-issue.

Shame about outlawing the bearings....something that lends itself to greater longevity and lower maintenance (with negligible performance boost AS PER MANUFACTURER REP), which are core concepts of VTA.
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Last edited by Buckaroo; 01-04-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:00 PM   #9954
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Quote:
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Why? Especially in light of this statement?:




These two statements don't jive without any support.



I understand what you're trying to do (cost control and perception shaping), but I think it's a solution in search of a problem. In any case, how would you ever tech for user replaced bearings? I mean, it's not like they're hard to get, hard to replace, or expensive. It is something that the average user wouldn't do on their own, probably, so it's really probably a non-issue.

Shame about outlawing the bearings....something that lends itself to greater longevity and lower maintenance (with negligible performance boost AS PER MANUFACTURER REP), which are core concepts of VTA.
I'm guessing your gonna need to replace your bearings...FWIW I ran the same 21.5 for over 2 years in VTA and never had a bearing fail, I would occasionally (at best) oi them for maintenance. With the slower speeds especially in the 25.5 motors the bearings should easily last the life of the motor, you will no doubt get your moneys worth out of them anyway.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:20 PM   #9955
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well for my own food for thought...Im going to install my C-bearing and 13mm rotor out of my 17.5, and see if I can notice any difference at all...Ill test it Wednesday nite and get back with ya...

thanks for all the info....
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #9956
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Some things to keep in mind with regard to ceramic bearings:

...No real performance advantage in 25.5T motors/Spec (non-timing) escs
...Difficult to install and seat properly without the proper tool
...Impossible to detect visually

Ceramic Ball Bearing

Steel Ball Bearings
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:59 PM   #9957
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As mentioned, Ceramic bearings are virtually impossible to tech and if they are made illegal will it be for both motor AND car?
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:05 PM   #9958
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You know what? Forget it. Do what you want with the bearings. I know it makes no difference, and if you want to waste your money that's fine with me. It's going to be more of a pain to have everyone complaining.


CERAMIC BEARINGS WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER.

You have been warned, don't get suckered in....


There's still no tuning rotors (13mm) allowed though
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:14 PM   #9959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
You know what? Forget it. Do what you want with the bearings. I know it makes no difference, and if you want to waste your money that's fine with me. It's going to be more of a pain to have everyone complaining.


CERAMIC BEARINGS WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER.

You have been warned, don't get suckered in....


There's still no tuning rotors (13mm) allowed though
Like I said before, it's not about making it any faster, just more maintenance free, wether it's in the motor or the rest of the car. That's why outlawing them didn't make much sense.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:25 PM   #9960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Some things to keep in mind with regard to ceramic bearings:

...No real performance advantage in 25.5T motors/Spec (non-timing) escs
...Difficult to install and seat properly without the proper tool
...Impossible to detect visually

Ceramic Ball Bearing

Steel Ball Bearings
If I'm reading and understanding this correctly, the tuning rotor will slow the car down on the straight.
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