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Old 01-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #76
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All I can say, then, is "have a ball".

What makes me shake my head is that you started out absolutely inflexible on the 27T spec. I spend the following two weeks talking my fellow racers into really giving that an honest go rather than the 19T we've been (successfully) running and am just getting agreement, and now you want to go sheeplike into the brushless fold.

Mark my words...and note I'll be going brushless with everybody else (in ROAR classes anyway) 'cause that's what racers do...brushless is NOT going to reduce either costs or effort. The "effort" will be different, but get ready for carrying a laptop computer and an array of rotors to the track with you because THAT is where the "magic" of brushless is going to be found. You may not be fiddling around with brush compounds and springs anymore, but you'll be spending that same time (and more) farting around with maps and profiles. The costs will be significantly higher than what we've ever seen with brushed. I'm fortunate that I can afford it as it comes to pass but there are a LOT of people I know who've been racing a LOT of years who won't be able to.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:47 PM   #77
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I really like the rules, kudos. I will be trying mine tommorow, my tc5 with 50/100 gear. do you guys allow traction additive to the tires such as paragon?
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:51 PM   #78
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For the record, "we" were never inflexible about the 27t brushed motor. In fact, none of the people involved in this series or sanctioning body wanted it at all. For the random few individuals who are disgruntled with this decision to add the brushless option to the motor menu, there are dozens of others who will be racing to build their cars and join in the fun.

The rest of us will enjoy racing on a level playing field with relatively spec motors. Anyone who spends time mapping and timing ESC software for a Trans Am car also probably doesn't see the sun much or have human contact very often.


And remember, we are not removing the brushed 27t motor option—just enhancing the choices for racer who want to choose. They proved to be very equal on the track with the FDR limit. There is very little lost in the brushed option for those who really want to use it.
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Last edited by squarehead; 01-12-2008 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by bigemike View Post
I really like the rules, kudos. I will be trying mine tommorow, my tc5 with 50/100 gear. do you guys allow traction additive to the tires such as paragon?
I have used both Paragon (the original), Paragon FXII, Simple Green and Jack the Gripper at different tracks. They all work and all have their own individual characteristics. Compounds should be left up to individual track rules. If your track allows Paragon, then use it.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:15 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Brian lost the glue tube, too.

BTW, Steve, you talk way too much.
No biggie on the glue. I can live without it (until I get my HPI tires and wheels ). I have been known to be the center of the party...I never shut up. NOT.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:36 PM   #81
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Was there any test on the 21.5 and lipo?
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:38 PM   #82
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Why not bring back the sealed endbell? A $20 motor that will last forever and put everyone at a very close level? Impossible right? Wrong! We are doing it at our track and it is working awesome. Everyone is really happy with the amount of work as a brushless system at 1/10 the cost.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:53 PM   #83
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Was there any test on the 21.5 and lipo?
No, as of this time, we don't have a 21.5 to test with. For now, the 4-cell equivalents were the main focus and will be the focus of the class. Personally, I think the 21.5/Lipo option will be a good one down the road, but we're trying to walk before we run.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean R View Post
Why not bring back the sealed endbell? A $20 motor that will last forever and put everyone at a very close level? Impossible right? Wrong! We are doing it at our track and it is working awesome. Everyone is really happy with the amount of work as a brushless system at 1/10 the cost.
For beginner classes and entry level guys, sealed motors are fine. But for anyone who has played with these toys for any time, tweaking a silver can motor "beyond the rules" is too easy to do. I've seen enough racers in silver can classes buy 25 $6 motors to get one or two good ones, then spend hours water dipping and comm twisting to make "slow" motors fast. Not worth it, IMO.


Just one guy's opinion...
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:57 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
For beginner classes and entry level guys, sealed motors are fine. But for anyone who has played with these toys for any time, tweaking a silver can motor "beyond the rules" is too easy to do. I've seen enough racers in silver can classes buy 25 $6 motors to get one or two good ones, then spend hours water dipping and comm twisting to make "slow" motors fast.


Just one guy's opinion...
No one would do that with a stock motor, that's cheating. Sorry, they already do. That's what killed the stock motor.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:58 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean R View Post
Why not bring back the sealed endbell? A $20 motor that will last forever and put everyone at a very close level? Impossible right? Wrong! We are doing it at our track and it is working awesome. Everyone is really happy with the amount of work as a brushless system at 1/10 the cost.
I think that was addressed earlier in the thread. The motors are too easy to cheat with.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:02 PM   #86
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I think that was addressed earlier in the thread. The motors are too easy to cheat with.
But how are you going to jam the arm without making it noticable on the can when you torque the shaft?
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:03 PM   #87
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Far to easy to get a real dog of a Mabuchi or Johnson, too. The manufacturing tolerances and inconsistencies makes it a bad choice for spec racing when the class is competitive.

Otherwise, we could always bring back DustBuster racing. Anyone old enough to remember that?
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:05 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Far to easy to get a real dog of a Mabuchi or Johnson, too. The manufacturing tolerances and inconsistencies makes it a bad choice for spec racing when the class is competitive.

Otherwise, we could always bring back DustBuster racing. Anyone old enough to remember that?
But if you really were trying to engineer a cheap, fun class you would see my point.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:09 PM   #89
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First I want to thank Doug and all the others that did the testing today to come up with a formula that will satisfy both Brushless and Brushed motor users. I think their efforts today should be applauded. Now people have the choice to use their older equipment to run in this class as well as give people new to the hobby to buy new equipment that won't be outdated in 6 months a chance to still race together in close competition.

Those that are already fighting these rules really don't understand what the whole concept was for the introduction of this class. FUN CLOSE COMPETITION! The idea was also to use people's existing equipment. Many people expressed interest in this class and wanted to go with the new BL technology as they have gotten rid of all their brushed equipment.

There are always going to be many different ways and ideas for this class to be, if your track wants to do it different there is nothing stopping you. i am sure there will still be changes to the formula as time goes on.

Thanks again to all that took the time today to do all the testing they did.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:56 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean R View Post
But how are you going to jam the arm without making it noticable on the can when you torque the shaft?
I have seen legal Silver can's smoke most stock motors in Tamiya TCS races.

besides I dont own any brushed stuff anymore and like running 30 min between battery charges

I have gone all LiPo except a few cells to last for TCS GT1 and then I am going to be one of those that will want to run 21.5 LiPo because that is all I will have

Making the move to 17.5 4 cell is great because if you want to run 2 classes ROAR Stock with the 17.5 and Lipo and then just change battery and pinion to run in Vintage Trans Am class. the car is already ballanced.

ApexSpeed : Keep up the good work

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